Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There is only community in the US where getting educated and keeping a job is denigrated as "acting too white". In turn, the community has fostered an "anti-intellectual culture" which keeps people from moving beyond their circumstance
Thank you for expressing your concerns and I will keep that in mind the next time someone calls me a ******.
Do you agree? Are blacks their biggest enemy using racism as an excuse for underachievement?[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
This argument is flawed as there are many people who have experienced racism and it is the reason they are still down.
I dont think the writer was saying it doesnt exist, but it is as if he is excluding it for the sake of bettering his argument.
The thing about immigrants out performing the native population goes for all races, not just African Americans, that just shows that those coming from worse places strive to do better for themselves.
The real problem in African American communities is education.
and really, Juan Williams, LOL.
Yep.
Definitely a flawed argument because where would you ever find a black person willing to make excuses for black underachievement?
Do immigrants outperform Asian Americans?
How about Jewish Americans?
No.
These groups raise their kids to be responsible and productive.
They have expectations of their children and refuse to allow them to fail.
Oh, I love it when folks decide to weigh in on black people...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tropical87
There is only community in the US where getting educated and keeping a job is denigrated as "acting too white". In turn, the community has fostered an "anti-intellectual culture" which keeps people from moving beyond their circumstance
And now for the real world.
The truth is, when you ask teenagers how important education is for a successful life, black teens are *the most* likely to answer "very important". And black males were the most likely to label high-achievers "cool", although the difference is significant. (source) And when asked, most black people agree that a black person who doesn't achieve, fails because of his own lack of willpower (Source, P. 5)
So I guess we can toss that idea out the window.
Quote:
One black author has this to say:
Quote:
And what about the tragic fact of a 25% poverty rate among black Americans? That's more than twice the 12% national poverty rate and more than triple the poverty rate among whites.
My critics are busy blaming racism for all this poverty. But that tactic is losing its punch because so many people of color, including black people from Africa and the Caribbean, arrive in this country and outperform native-born black people in educational achievement and income. And it is hard to make the old "racism is the whole problem" argument when the other 75% of black America is taking advantage of 50 years of new opportunities — since Brown vs. Board of Education and the Civil Rights Act — to create the largest black middle class in history, with unprecedented wealth and political power.
This is just silly. We know, absolutely, that the gap between black and white wealth dates back to the era of Jim Crow. We know, absolutely, that banks, colleges, and employers discriminated wildly against black people - and still do so, to the point of openly preferring recent immigrants to African-Americans. We know that, at the HS level, white people with recent felonies are preferred over black people with clean records (feel free to Google "Devah Prager").
Quote:
Quote:
Still, I felt as if the whole panel, myself included, had gone too far in dismissing the "black culture" argument. In trying to make a point too quickly in a time-constrained public forum, we all allowed the howl of "No!" to completely override any serious engagement with the very real issue of black group culture, a problem calling out for a real discussion.
Such a discussion is in order because of the many troubling patterns of behavior in black communities, especially poor black communities that warrant close attention. It's the relatively low priority placed on education and mastery of standard English, the apparent virtue too many of our youth attach to gangsterism, a widespread embrace of thuggishness, embodied in the so-called "cool pose" and a smug sense of entitlement to the "good life," in place of an appreciation for hard work, sacrifice and the postponement of gratification for success. The War Within
I've noticed that many white people, and a strong minority of black people, are happy to proclaim that anything that young black people do, must be because they "want to be thugs". That's how sagging jeans was supposedly from prison (never mind that the stereotypical prison outfit is actually an orange jumpsuit), why they listen to Rap (never mind that the most popular rappers include Kendrick Lamar and Drake, or that rap was loudly anti drugs and violence during the Crack Era) and why they use Ebonics (as if politicians don't use bad Southern accents - or in our last white republican president's case, pretending to be born in Texas). There's a certain stereotype at play here: White kids acting like fools is fine, black kids acting like fools is evil.
Here's a hint: kids adopt a "cool pose" because they want to be liked by their peers.
I also like the line about appreciating "hard work". Meanwhile, black folks are still teaching their kids that they need to be twice as good as their white counterparts, to get as far. Hell, in my day, it was "Half as far". So we've progressed.
Yes, there are some black people who enjoy ignorance. There's also the disproportionally white Tea Party. The idea that black people are somehow uniquely ignorant and in love with voilent imagery among Americans is a joke. A very old, very racist joke.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 22 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,550 posts, read 16,539,320 times
Reputation: 6033
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow
It doesn't hold water. The specific cases you cited are valid, but your argument is deeply flawed. None of this shows with any degree of certainty that tossing more money at a school will increase achievement to any desired level, beyond what you can show in certain very specific instances.
Strawman.
How can you tell me what i said is valid and also say it doesnt hold water ? and you disagreeing with what i said doesnt make it strawman, explain your case.
Quote:
It's not a complicated connection. You're arguing some type of absolute correlation, and I'm proving you wrong.
I never once argued in absolutes, i simply argued that i do not understand your logic in saying money will not help. Many of these schools are underfunded and that is one of the reasons they are failing and their students arent making it in life. You seem to be the one arguing in absolutes.
Quote:
Anyone who's spent time in public school (especially in low achieving minority areas) and is not a brain dead liberal knows that money is not very high on the list of problems.
Anyone who has actually spend time talking to students and teachers knows that in many cases money can be the problem.
My chemistry teacher spent her own money on our school supplies because the school system couldnt support it( which made no sense considering the high school down the road just got a brand new state of the art Tech wing).
so you know people who actually idolized those specific types of people you named? im sorry, but i never idolized any of them, nor did anyone i know.
the only thing in that list i can agree with is the sex part, and that crosses race and gender lines.
So those types of people who are often in the public.
Have absolutely no affect on the youth whatsoever? Yeah, I have to disagree with you.
It hard for me to believe that songs/movies, about violence, drugs, being a gangsta, being a pimp etc repeatedly being drilled into the youth is in no way related to the rise in youth/gang violence, teenage parents, diseases, drugs.
Seeing rappers, athletes, celebrities promote these activities that has no eaffect?
How can you tell me what i said is valid and also say it doesnt hold water ?
I said, what you said was only valid in certain cherry picked instances, which you yourself laid out. Your theory, as a general theory, does not hold water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
and you disagreeing with what i said doesnt make it strawman, explain your case.
When you say "i have never understood why people think taking money away from an already failing school is going to make it better," that is a strawman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
I never once argued in absolutes, i simply argued that i do not understand your logic in saying money will not help. Many of these schools are underfunded and that is one of the reasons they are failing and their students arent making it in life. You seem to be the one arguing in absolutes.
I never said money would not help at all. I said compared to other issues, it's a small one. You are speaking in absolutes when you say things like "money can solve the problem".
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
Anyone who has actually spend time talking to students and teachers knows that in many cases money can be the problem.
My chemistry teacher spent her own money on our school supplies because the school system couldnt support it( which made no sense considering the high school down the road just got a brand new state of the art Tech wing).
Yes, in some cases.
In others, money is not the problem. As indicated by the fact that we are getting our asses kicked in math and science by kids in Latvia and the Czech Republic. This isn't even a black problem, this is an America problem.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 22 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,550 posts, read 16,539,320 times
Reputation: 6033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermaine88
So those type of people who are often in the public.
Have absolutely no affect on the youth whatsoever? Yeah, I have to disagree with you.
It hard for me to believe that songs/movies about, violence, drugs, being a gangsta, being a pimp etc repeatedly being drilled into the youth is in no way related to the rise in youth/gang violence, teenage parents, diseases, drugs.
I think they are related.
I never said they have no influence, im saying you are over stating that influence.
When was the last time you heard someone mention "pimps" and it not be a parody ????? Gangster Rap died around 2005.
i think your argument is outdated by about 10 years.
Oh, I love it when folks decide to weigh in on black people...
And now for the real world.
The truth is, when you ask teenagers how important education is for a successful life, black teens are *the most* likely to answer "very important". And black males were the most likely to label high-achievers "cool", although the difference is significant. (source) And when asked, most black people agree that a black person who doesn't achieve, fails because of his own lack of willpower (Source, P. 5)
So I guess we can toss that idea out the window.
This is just silly. We know, absolutely, that the gap between black and white wealth dates back to the era of Jim Crow. We know, absolutely, that banks, colleges, and employers discriminated wildly against black people - and still do so, to the point of openly preferring recent immigrants to African-Americans. We know that, at the HS level, white people with recent felonies are preferred over black people with clean records (feel free to Google "Devah Prager").
I've noticed that many white people, and a strong minority of black people, are happy to proclaim that anything that young black people do, must be because they "want to be thugs". That's how sagging jeans was supposedly from prison (never mind that the stereotypical prison outfit is actually an orange jumpsuit), why they listen to Rap (never mind that the most popular rappers include Kendrick Lamar and Drake, or that rap was loudly anti drugs and violence during the Crack Era) and why they use Ebonics (as if politicians don't use bad Southern accents - or in our last white republican president's case, pretending to be born in Texas). There's a certain stereotype at play here: White kids acting like fools is fine, black kids acting like fools is evil.
Here's a hint: kids adopt a "cool pose" because they want to be liked by their peers.
I also like the line about appreciating "hard work". Meanwhile, black folks are still teaching their kids that they need to be twice as good as their white counterparts, to get as far. Hell, in my day, it was "Half as far". So we've progressed.
Yes, there are some black people who enjoy ignorance. There's also the disproportionally white Tea Party. The idea that black people are somehow uniquely ignorant and in love with voilent imagery among Americans is a joke. A very old, very racist joke.
Well put
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
