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Is the pope just a symbol for Catholics or does he actually have some importance to the non Catholics?
How many on here are Catholic? How many would go to see him if he returns to America? If so, why?
Most of our doctrines allude to the Roman Catholic church...but yet none of us know much about Mass or could even respond as needed to the liturgies...
Guess I'm wondering what does it matter if they have no more popes or fifty eleven dozen more?
What do you want..statistics on death toll numbers from the Crusades ?
Suffice it to say a lot of innocent people died.
A poster made the following statement
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom
Sorry, but I almost fell out of my chair on this one. Historically, the Catholic Church has been responsible for more wars than any other entity, and can take the blame for far more deaths than they can take credit for lives saved.
I asked for a citation.
It's a damn sad state of affairs that I have to keep explaining what that means and why it's important.
It is important to draw a distinction between the Roman Catholic church as an organization and the intimately held religious beliefs of ordinary catholics.
The organization that is the Roman Catholic church is a cross between a multinational corporation, a political party and the mafia.
The child abuse scandal - which seems to be pervasive throughout that organization - has demonstrated a total disregard for the victims, concerted attempts to pervert the course of justice in multiple countries by shielding the perpetrators and financial shenanigans designed to cheat the victims out of compensation.
In the past few days, in Scotland, Cardinal O'Brien has been accused of 'inappropriate behavior' (essentially gay behavior). But it is not the fact of being gay but rather the abuse of a position of power in order to obtain sexual favors.
Needless to say, Cardinal O'Brien is vehemently opposed to gay marriage.
But beyond the child abuse and sexual abuse scandals, the Vatican has been embroiled in financial scandals for at least 30 years. Those with long memories will remember Roberto Calvi, an Italian known as "God's Banker" because of his links to the Vatican, and who was found hanging from London's Blackfriars Bridge. More recently, the Vatican bank has been suspected of money laundering and, in September 2010, Italian investigators froze €23 million in bank funds during a probe into possible money-laundering, placing its President Ettore Gotti Tedeschi under investigation.
Those with even longer memories will recall the very ambiguous attitude of the Roman Catholic church to the Nazis and the role of the Vatican Refugee Commission in providing known war criminals with false identities.
In my opinion, the Roman Catholic church is a criminal organization. For the protection of society it needs to be shut down.
It's a damn sad state of affairs that I have to keep explaining what that means and why it's important.
It's an even sadder state of affairs when I've already replied to you and invited you to have a conversation about the topic, yet you've ignored the post in which I replied and continued to attempt to deflect from historical fact.
The Crusades are just one part of one side of the equation.
I'm looking for the entire equation.
If the actions of the Catholic Church caused the death or physical damage of just one person in its history, then the Church went against the teachings of Christ. Simple as that. And as the Catholic Church has done this, playing a numbers game about just how many is really besides the point.
Then do your own research.
You continue to try to whitewash their activities.
Another sad state of affairs is that people seem to live in alternate realities.
Where did I originally try to whitewash their activities?
Where did I continue to try to whitewash their activities?
The only thing that I've done is ask the poster to support his statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom
It's an even sadder state of affairs when I've already replied to you and invited you to have a conversation about the topic, yet you've ignored the post in which I replied and continued to attempt to deflect from historical fact.
More of the same...
How have I attempted to deflect from historical fact? Have I denied the Crusades?
You made a statement. I asked you to support your statement with evidence.
It's a simple concept. Most people learn this in high school.
I am an outspoken atheist.
I have no love for the Catholic, nor any other, religion.
A big part of the reason that I don't believe in any religion is that there is no evidence for any of them.
I'm a big believer in having evidence in something before believing in it.
Thus, if I am to believe your claim that the Catholic church is responsible for more deaths than lives saved, you need to provide evidence.
You have not done so.
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