3 Charts: How The Economy Does When You Listen To Right Wingers

[txgolfer130]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

China does not own most of the debt.

China is the largest FOREIGN owner of U.S. debt.

[KUchief25]

I'm sure according to you liberals austerity in Estonioa, Latvia and Lithuania didn't work either. Or they were done how Krugman wanted it done. LOL

Sad bunch you folks are. You scream ad nausium for defense cuts and when 7% of these new cuts are to defense you scream we can't cut anything. You claim the US is coming to an end for cutting 40 billion. More proof you won't accept any cuts. That won't stop you all from lying that you will though.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by TempesT68

It doesn't, that's why GOP fiscal plans are complete disasters.
The GOP's idea of "fiscal responsibility" is spend, spend, spend, spend, give handouts to the rich, spend, spend, raise taxes on the poor and middle class, spend, start wars, spend, destroy medicare and social security, spend, and spend.

But that's what actually happened, not what they say.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by KUchief25

I'm sure according to you liberals austerity in Estonioa, Latvia and Lithuania didn't work either. Or they were done how Krugman wanted it done. LOL

Sad bunch you folks are. You scream ad nausium for defense cuts and when 7% of these new cuts are to defense you scream we can't cut anything. You claim the US is coming to an end for cutting 40 billion. More proof you won't accept any cuts. That won't stop you all from lying that you will though.

Latvia? What the hell worked in Latvia? Its been called a success. Hey lets call Zimbabwe a success. Now it s successful.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...20unemployment

Latvia struggles with 'demographic disaster' - LATVIA - FRANCE 24

Sorry, Latvia Is No Austerity Success Story - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic


Totally delusional....My God....

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by txgolfer130

China is the largest FOREIGN owner of U.S. debt.

You say that as if it invalidates the statement.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by JasonF

Austerity in the sense that is proposed by our right was not used in Iceland.

They beefed up their social safety net. They let the banks die and erased enormous amounts of debt for their people. They raised taxes on the wealthy to help get government finances under control. In other words, they did the exact opposite of what Republicans propose for the United States.

If you're going to point to Iceland as a successful model for how to get out of a financial crisis, go ahead, but at least come armed with some basic understanding of what they did, instead of engaging in wishful fantasy and pretending they did what you imagine would work, but what in reality has failed everywhere it's been tried.

They just don't get it. If a person who works has so much debt they can never pay it off, they stop working because its pointless. The very profit motive conservatives claim to promote never read Goldie Locks. Austerity works when it wipes off debt, not when the debt remains. Banks must fail. If banks were allowed to fail with bank exec compensation claw back, bring austerity on.


If banks don't fail its not a market economy.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by padcrasher

Austerity! Cutting middle class and poor benefits in the middle of an economic downturn!

This is what these fools have been calling for.

This is what would have happened to the US if right wingers had their way.

How Austerity Stifled The British Economy (And The Rest Of Europe) In Three Charts | ThinkProgress

More cutting of middle class benefits actually led to less economic growth, less job creation, and higher debt to gdp ratios.

What liberals have been telling voters all along came true!

Want to ruin the US economy? Let the GOP and Obama collude together to cut your middle class benefits!

This has been debunked repeatedly.......yet you Liberals keep starting new threads on the same dead topic....

Why do you intentionally ignore the countries where Austerityâ„¢ did work? Talk about freaking propaganda.....

Originally Posted by padcrasher

Oh? you are only concerned if it's "destroyed"?

But OK with benefits cuts of 17%?

For what, Social Security? No way. It's presently 32%-36%. SSA says 28%, but in their 2013 report it will be higher.

Originally Posted by padcrasher

And the only thing that will save it is FICA increases for all? Sure!

That's right. The burden of proof is upon you....quit talking and start chalking.

A link to some blog where a dope-smoking ******* says raising the retirement age to 70 will save the world is not proof....that's propaganda, disinformation, misinformation and a really cruel hoax.

Originally Posted by padcrasher

So, typical that you are unaware a lifting of the income tax cap would solve about 90% of the SS deficit and that would not require a tax hike for all.

That's bull-****, it's been repeatedly debunked and you have been called out on in, most recently here....

//www.city-data.com/forum/27479518-post23.html

You got ripped to shreds, and as usual you run away when facts are thrown at you.

For this exercise, we will use....

Individual Income Tax Returns, Preliminary Data, 2010 by Adrian Dungan and Michael Parisi, from

Statistics of Income Bulletin | Winter 2012

Adrian Dungan and Michael Parisi are economists with the Individual Returns Analysis Section. This article was prepared under the direction of Michael Strudler, Chief, Individual Returns Research Section, Internal Revenue Service.

Referring to Page 12 Table 1. Individual Income Tax Returns, Tax Year 2010 Preliminary Data: Selected Income and Tax Items, by Size of Adjusted Gross Income

We are examining Column 1 Items, specifically lines

#7 Salaries and wages: Number of returns
#8 Amount

For AGI (Adjusted Gross Income) Number of Returns Filed
$100,000 under $200,000 = 2,793,003
$200,000 under $250,000 = 1,401,593
$250,000 or more = 2,435,348

The total number of returns filed for those groups is 16,629,944 returns.

For AGI (Adjusted Gross Income) Salaries and Wages
$100,000 under $200,000 = $1,454,682,235,000
$200,000 under $250,000 = $251,279,279,000
$250,000 or more = $982,361,511,000

The total salaries and wages are $2,688,323,025,000 ($2.688 TRILLION)

Eliminating the cap and taxing 100% of all wages/salaries would yield....

$2,688,323,025,000 * 6.2% = $166,676,027,550 ($166 Billion)

However, a portion of those wages/salaries are already taxed. For simple math, and to give you every possible benefit of doubt, we'll use $100,000 as the "cap." The total amount under the "cap" is....

16,629,944 * $100,000 = $1,662,994,400,000

The amount FICA payroll taxes already collected is...

$1,662,994,400,000 * 6.2% = $103,105,652,800 ($103 Billion)

$166,676,027,550 ($166 Billion)
$103,105,652,800 ($103 Billion) less
-----------------------
$63,570,374,750

So $63.5 Billion is the amount of additional FICA tax revenues raised by eliminating the cap.....in theory.

I say "in theory" because in Realityâ„¢ you would collect less than that...yes, the Laws of Economics will raise its ugly stick and beat all of you profusely about the head and shoulders. I'll let Social Security explain it in part....

In particular, the calculation of the necessary tax rate assumes that an increase in payroll taxes results in a small shift of wages and salaries to forms of employee compensation that are not subject to the payroll tax.

What's amazing is how you can come to this forum and spew the same silly false nonsense over and over with a straight face.

For those who don't already know......I take no position on the Social Security wage/salary cap.

Raise it if you want, or not, but know this........the FICA payroll tax will still have to be step-increased each year to at least 16.0%-16.4% by 2025-2028.

And if the FICA payroll tax isn't 9.0%-9.2% by January 2016, then you're hopelessly utterly screwed.

Originally Posted by txgolfer130

Austerity DID NOT WORK in Iceland. They did the EXACT OPPOSITE of austerity and are now examples of what should have been done.

Europe should see Iceland as recovery role model: PM | Reuters

What a great disinformation artist you are......here.....I'll tell people the truth since you refuse....

Europe should see Iceland as recovery role model: PM | Reuters

www.reuters.com/article/.../us-iceland-idUSBRE85B12O20120612
Jun 12, 2012 – Nevertheless, Sigurdardottir told Reuters that Iceland's mix of measured austerity and unorthodox policies -

So...who is more credible, Daily Kos or Sigurdardottir and his Icelandic Government?

I just want to make certain everyone sees the Truth.

Originally Posted by txgolfer130

China is the largest FOREIGN owner of U.S. debt.

You're seriously lacking in accuracy....we get that...

......................... .Dec.. Nov.. Oct
Country............... 2012 2012* 2012*
------------------ ------ ------ ------
China, Mainland ... 1202.8 1183.1 1169.9
Japan................. 1120.2 1117.7 1131.9

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

Still debunking nonsense....

Mircea

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

but wait.
1. obama and the current congress say we are OUT of the depression/recession...as of june 09
2. the first step to reducing debt is to LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS...stop having trillion dollar deficits
3. yes you may need to rasie taxes a little...but the ENTIRE ISSUE is the OVERSPENDING by washingtonDC...(doesnt matter what party is in power)

You conveniently omit spending on wars and everything else before 2009, in fact there was zero concern about deficits before Obama took office. Why is that?
You cannot cut your way to prosperity. You can trim services and save a pittance, but you need revenue as well. So why are righties not concerned about the unequal tax distribution, corporate welfare, outsourcing, and offshore tax shelters? Republicons say these and other sources of revenue are off the table. So it seems their goal is to destroy the economy - but why? Give Obama the blame? Yes, they want desperately for Obama to fail.
This austerity on the lower classes is repeated over and over by the Right, and it gets really old.

It's Official: Austerity Economics Doesn't Work : The New Yorker
Excerpt: "Any decent economics textbook will tell you that, other things being equal, cutting government spending causes the economy’s overall output to fall, tax revenues to decrease, and spending on benefits to increase. Almost invariably, the end result is slower growth (or a recession) and high budget deficits. Osborne, relying on arguments about restoring the confidence of investors and businessmen that his forebears at the U.K. Treasury used during the early nineteen-thirties against Keynes, insisted (and continues to insist) otherwise, but he has been proven wrong."

Notice the parallels with republican thinking here - it's all about "uncertainty" among the investor class. Nothing else matters. They refuse to believe that the middle class drives the economy, but instead it is their wealthy base which does so.

Here is the approach needed.
Excerpt: "The only way to bring down the U.S. government’s deficit in a sustainable manner, and put the nation’s finances on a firmer footing, is to keep the economy growing. Spending cuts and tax increases can also play a role, but they need to be introduced gradually."

Grow the economy with money in the pockets of the middle class.

[Jean71]

Originally Posted by TempesT68

It doesn't, that's why GOP fiscal plans are complete disasters.
The GOP's idea of "fiscal responsibility" is spend, spend, spend, spend, give handouts to the rich, spend, spend, raise taxes on the poor and middle class, spend, start wars, spend, destroy medicare and social security, spend, and spend.

Smh.......