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Old 12-04-2013, 02:00 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,082,097 times
Reputation: 9408

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Thats what he thought when he made the statement, he was not to know at the time that once the plan was up and running his statement would go on to conflict with the plans new set of standards that all insurers were obliged to abide by , resulting in many plans so worthless they were considered junk plans and were thrown out/cancelled,IMO rather a blessing in disguise for many who thought they had viable healthcare plans when in reality they were paying for nothing.,
i think calling this incident a lie is just the rightwing playing with semantics to as usual try to make the President look bad,another strawman if you will.
How was it not a lie? As I said before, "Period." does not need a qualifier. "Period." is the qualifier.

Barack Obama qualified the statement with finality.

That makes it a lie.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,778 posts, read 9,640,437 times
Reputation: 7485
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Yes, but here's the catch. Obamacare was not sold on the idea that someone could go get a cold checked out for $30 copay. Obamacare was sold on the idea that ACA "will actually save them from financial ruin if they get sick."

Financial ruin from being sick does not occur when someone has the sniffles.

I would appreciate it if those who support ACA would stop moving the goal posts.
With a maximum out of pocket for a catastrophic illness is 12,700 that is saving the average person from financial ruin, IMO.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:02 PM
Status: "On the road with Kid Charlamagne" (set 16 days ago)
 
8,018 posts, read 5,826,092 times
Reputation: 9672
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
That is exactly what I was talking about. Normal procedures and health care are covered with co pays for most what the average person would need. Serious illness has a deductible that varies from policy to policy. Those making less than 63,000 get a subsidy.

The example cited was for a single mother with 2 children making 39,000 a year and paying 300 per month for silver. the policy had normal co pays of 30% based on the silver plan. If She or her children had a serious illness or injury, her maximum out of pocket would never exceed 12,700.

Seemed like a decent policy for 300 per month???

Does it seem like a decent policy?

Her premiums are more than 10% of her income (gross income dollars vs. premiums paid in net dollars).

Her OOP max is in excess of 33% of her income (again, gross vs. net)

What if her kids -- and having kids, I know this can happen -- hit the OOP max two years in a row? Do you think she would be looking down the barrel of financial disaster?

Is that "Affordable" to you? I know a thing or two about finance and economics, and that doesn't sound all that affordable to me.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,778 posts, read 9,640,437 times
Reputation: 7485
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
Does it seem like a decent policy?

Her premiums are more than 10% of her income (gross income dollars vs. premiums paid in net dollars).

Her OOP max is in excess of 33% of her income (again, gross vs. net)

What if her kids -- and having kids, I know this can happen -- hit the OOP max two years in a row? Do you think she would be looking down the barrel of financial disaster?

Is that "Affordable" to you? I know a thing or two about finance and economics, and that doesn't sound all that affordable to me.
do you think that if she got her insurance on the open , single market prior to Obamacare her plan would have been better by any degree?
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:09 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
334 posts, read 715,123 times
Reputation: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
This is not an Obamacare thread. This is a correction to the record that liberals keep spewing.



What Obama Really Meant When He Said 'If You Like Your Plan, You Can Keep It'

No, HuffPo, that promise has not been broken. Instead, that LIE HAS BEEN EXPOSED!

Broken Promise vs a Lie.

A broken promise = not working out as planned.

A lie = A willful and intentional effort to mislead and deceive.

If the repeated proclamation of "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. Period." was a broken promise, the President would be able to show that his Administration made legitimate efforts to honor the President's word.

Instead, the President told a bald-faced lie. Everyone, including him, knew that people would not be able to "keep their plan" if they "liked it." His Administration crafted the rules to make his proclamation IMPOSSIBLE for millions!

So lets be clear, liberals. BARACK OBAMA IS A BALD FACED LIAR.

This is his "No New Taxes" moment and it will be hitched to his legacy forever.

Agreed. No one can dispute this and maintain any semblance of credibility or intellectual honesty.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:16 PM
Status: "On the road with Kid Charlamagne" (set 16 days ago)
 
8,018 posts, read 5,826,092 times
Reputation: 9672
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
do you think that if she got her insurance on the open , single market prior to Obamacare her plan would have been better by any degree?
That wasn't the question I posed.

I wanted to know if you thought that this policy was "Affordable" when I presented you the facts of what her actual "costs" could be.

Unfortunately, I was a corporate slave for too long, and never had to buy my insurance on the open market, so I'm not sure whether her plan pre-Obamacare would have been better.

But it's important to crunch the numbers to verify the "Affordability" of any of the ACA plans. Don't fall for the fact that "my deductibles went down, so therefore I'm saving money". Are you? Or did your exposure to loss (deductible/OOP) act as a bad trade-off to your new lower deductibles?

Is the new BMW 750Li an "affordable" car? Well, it "could" be, if you put enough money down (same as premiums and deductibles). But in the end, you're going to pay for it.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,029 posts, read 8,331,117 times
Reputation: 4211
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
riiiiight
His attorney obviously agrees with Obama in that the sheeple will believe any lie.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:20 PM
Status: "On the road with Kid Charlamagne" (set 16 days ago)
 
8,018 posts, read 5,826,092 times
Reputation: 9672
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
With a maximum out of pocket for a catastrophic illness is 12,700 that is saving the average person from financial ruin, IMO.

I could argue the fact that the $12,700 will often be the cause of financial ruin.

If I asked you to write me a check for $12,700 this year, could you do it? Could you do it if I asked you again next year?

A five-figure OOP is a SIGNIFICANT sum for someone making even $60k a year, and in the example you gave, the mom of 2 was making $39k gross.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:28 PM
 
Location: San Diego
50,153 posts, read 46,811,218 times
Reputation: 33984
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Thats what he thought when he made the statement, he was not to know at the time that once the plan was up and running his statement would go on to conflict with the plans new set of standards that all insurers were obliged to abide by , resulting in many plans so worthless they were considered junk plans and were thrown out/cancelled,IMO rather a blessing in disguise for many who thought they had viable healthcare plans when in reality they were paying for nothing.,
i think calling this incident a lie is just the rightwing playing with semantics to as usual try to make the President look bad,another strawman if you will.
So, he was just clueless about his main talking points then?
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:29 PM
Status: "On the road with Kid Charlamagne" (set 16 days ago)
 
8,018 posts, read 5,826,092 times
Reputation: 9672
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
So, he was just clueless. Period.
Lol....fixed that for you.
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