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even though you state you are african american, I never equated you as such. no insult intended.
I just always equated you as someone from the city.
as someone who lives in a rural setting, I could never really know how people in the city could live. just as I dont expect people living in cities to know how we live out in the country.
I live in Cochise County, Arizona. Look it up. This area is probably more rural than where you live.
And the gulf between country and city isn't nearly as wide as you're making it out to be.
Interesting thread idea, as I also appreciate the under-recognized role of "culture"" and "ancestry" in shaping our values and perceptions, and even our national identity across many generations and inter-marriages. And I can see how some folks whose "roots" go back here a long ways, might have some different attitudes or feel they have a greater "investment" than, say, a 2nd-gen Italian-American and relative "newcomer" like myself. In fact that sort of multi-generational "native" issue often comes up even in the state forums, where they often fret about the "newcomers"! Of course logically, where does the "stake" in all those past generations end, especially if one is Native -American, or even with the case of my own distant Roman ancestors, who at one time likely ruled over nearly all our European forebears anyway (...LOL)?!
And agreed, having traveled and lived abroad makes an extraordinary difference in how we see our relationship to the rest of the world. I for one think we enjoy an extravagant amount of personal space, compared to the population density and crowding of much of the rest of the world. Indeed, we'd probably all get along a lot better if we were packed together that close!
Re: the bold-very much so in Colorado. People are always yapping about being "4th generation Coloradan" or whatever. This was very strange to me when I moved here; where I come from (western PA) people talked about being first or second generation American. A lot of my friends' grandparents were born in Italy and Poland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
Just, how do you feel your ethnicity interface with your sense of being an American.
I think patriotism, like piety, is usually phony and largely for show. I work from the assumption that the gay, Quaker Puerto Rican hair dresser in Queens is likely to be as patriotic as the guy with the 8 foot high pickup truck and with flags waving off the mirrors. And the polician with the biggest lapel pin is very likely the biggest douche bag. So, no, I don't give a damn about that.
It is your national perception of your culture and what it means to be American (to you). If food stocks is your thing, so be it. After that meteor blast last week, it might well be a good thing.
Funny thing is, the English started the USA, but Englishness is largely behind the scenes. The Irish and Scots-Irish (and maybe Italians) are probably the loudest chest thumpers, and the largest european ethnic group, the Germans, keep a very low profile. You never hear a drunk guy yell "kiss me I'm German!" in this country. Similarly, hispanic and African-American folks go on and on about their race (raza) and ethnic character, but Asian-Americans don't seem to do nearly as much. I would guess we all have a different awareness, interest in their ethnic origins. My excuse for not knowing much is there are too damn many to know, and I suspect they are all pretty similar anyway. I like the diversity and mixture we get here.
Re: bold-but there are these "Oktoberfests" all over the place in the fall, strangely, usually in September.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45
Sorry, but haven't found my lack of "English ethnicity" to be any sort of obstacle to "embracing America", nor apparently have any of my asian, black or native-american friends (some of whom also served with me in the military). Which goes back to my earlier comments re: some folks feeling their ancestry makes them more "Amurikin", more "patriotic", and more "entitled" than others. Or perhaps being a "newcomer" makes me more aware of this issue.
In fact how many times have we all seen debates here, where someone goes, "but my ancestors have been here since before the Revolution, the Civil War, whatever...", as though an accident of birth somehow makes them more "special"?!
Like the earlier comments about the cabbie, Puerto Rican hairdresser, etc., I kinda think ancestry is only relevant to your personal values, and nothing else. The rest... patriotism, opinion, class, reputation, status, wealth, etc. are strictly based on your own merits. And isn't that really one of the core values and unique distinctions about American culture?
Re: bold-nor have I. I am 0% English. My great-grandfather, who was born in Germany, fought for the North in the Civil War. (He helped Sherman burn down Atlanta.) The highlight of his life was shaking hands with President Lincoln, when Lincoln reviewed the troops, just a few days before he was shot. Ggrandpa refused to allow English to be spoken in the house. He wasn't English, but he was an American.
"How does your ethnicity flavor your Americanism?"
Oh without a doubt, which is why I consider myself a proud Afro-American because my entire world view has been indelibly shaped by the American experience and how that experience has shaped and in turn been shaped by the experiences of African and their descendants.
For my American compatriots, I wonder if your ethnic heritage is a big part of your American self-perception. My genetics are pretty much a dog's breakfast. Largely northern European, with some Native American mixed in. Mostly I feel American, but I have lived in Europe twice, and enjoyed it a great deal.
For me, I like that you can have an ethnic and national identity here, largely without judgment or persecution, if you work hard, treat others with respect, and don't act like a loon.
How about you?
I think that your ethnicity is going to affect your experience as an American to one degree or another no matter what it is but I don't think it is likely to be a big thing in your American self-perception, whether you are Jewish, white, hispanic, Asian, whatever. Unless you are black. Because for one black Americans have a distinct culture separate from other Americans and separate from blacks in other nations. Two, while there are people of all types who do put great stock in ethnicity, part of that black American culture along with language, music, clothing, etc is to give their ethnicity itself a central role in self perception.
or a Scots-Irish ''son of the south'' talking like they have a corner on patriotism, just 'cuz ''their people'' go back to the Revolution (or more likely, the Irish Potato Famine)
the irish potato famine would be more relevant to the irish catholics in philly, boston, etc
'scots-irish' were not the same crowd. they were mostly protestants, refugees and transplants from different parts of europe.
this isn't some academic point, either , as irish catholics really do have a distinct urban culture (which has mixed with italian, polish, jewish, etc) that has increasingly little in common with rural, appalachian scots-irish protestant culture.
this isn't some academic point, either , as irish catholics really do have a distinct urban culture (which has mixed with italian, polish, jewish, etc) that has increasingly little in common with rural, appalachian scots-irish protestant culture.
Very true. Most Scot-Irish Americans don't even know what the potato famine was. Most Irish Americans sure do though.
I have absolutely no Asian heritage, but sometimes I wonder of I did in a previous life.
I've spent a good amount of years in SE Asia, and have always felt very comfortable and at home in that region.
I'd have to say, based on my experience, Asians are very much more accepting of other races than any other.
Stateside included.
If I had no family, nothing to tie me here, I'd settle on the far east without looking back.
I'm astonished at just how precisely people can state the percentage of their heritage. After the duration of human beings on this planet (for however long that might be), that someone can say they are 50% this, 20% that, etc. is simply remarkable.
I actually did some pretty extensive math work to compute my ancestry last night. lol.
My dad is easy to break down ancestry wise because all of his grandparents or great grandparents are from Europe. My mom was very difficult to calulate though, because only one of her great grandparents are from Europe. All the rest came prior to the 1860s. I had to go back generations and find out an estimate of how much of each of her ancestries passed down to her and then to me. My admixture is just an estimation. I'm sure there are many flaws in it.
I'm astonished at just how precisely people can state the percentage of their heritage. After the duration of human beings on this planet (for however long that might be), that someone can say they are 50% this, 20% that, etc. is simply remarkable.
Or why they think it really matters in any significant way. I can see caring if you need a kidney transplant but as far as your every day life, if one of your ancestors came from Poland instead of from Italy as you had previously thought, what would really be the big deal?
And people moved around in those other continents. Most people can only trace their lineage a couple generations or so, and how do they really know that some great great great great grandmother didn't come from some other country and why would it matter?
I live in Cochise County, Arizona. Look it up. This area is probably more rural than where you live.
And the gulf between country and city isn't nearly as wide as you're making it out to be.
Having moved from Atlanta to a small rural town, the gulf seems pretty wide to me.
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