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What these anti-pipeline idiots fail to realize, is that the states are building the pipeline. The squatter in the White House can't stop that. What he can stop is it crossing the border with Canada. So trucks load on the Canadian side, drive across and dump it into the US terminus of the pipeline. NAFTA hard at work.
there is a glut of oil in Cushing fact is there is so much crude ready to be refined that their is a back log this itrto get rid of choke points and to get the oil to refineries on the Gulf so they can run at higher output capacity which is more efficient then running below capacity and shutting down and restarting a plant takes a lot of money and time to do also I so the oil form Keystone XL line is just clearing up the massive backlog of the stuff we have at place like Cushing which is a huge bottleneck right now.
Keystone XL will connect up to the Bakken as that a begins a massive production and that will be sent through the XL line also.
The crude is loaded onto massive freight trains not trucks in fact if you own Railway stock in one of the Rail companies that travel the route it is a record high price right now.
My prediction is that the pipe will be built and the anouncement will come soon.
Well if it is not I know the east to west pipeline proposal will be fast tracked to send bitumen to be refined in Quebec and Ontario idle Refineries creating jobs across Canada and getting ourselves off the east coast importing of OPEC Oil ourselves .
We at least will become energy independent for the first time and that is good and I think the U.S. will come around we are way to close and have such a great history being able to be one of the two closest countries sharing a common border in history.
We are just so intertwined and have such integration with each other that our economies and trade is so vast that we trade and ship more goods across the border between each other in one single day than japan exports and trades with the U.S. in a whole year and Japan has a pretty massive advanced economy.
Many Texas land owners are more worried about lossing use of their land than any enviromental study.
Seems to me, this is great for Canadian oil concerns. Is there any assurance that once refined down at the gulf, that the product, what ever it may be, be returned and sold here in the US? Are we, as Americans sure that fuel is not going to be sold offshore elsewhere? Do we have that assurance?
If the federal government is to recieve lease royalties, I would much rather have gasoline at the consumer end instead of throwing money down a deep, dark, deficit hole.
This is not American crude, not an American outfit, it this fuel destined for American markets?
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,999 posts, read 4,119,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones
Many Texas land owners are more worried about lossing use of their land than any enviromental study.
Seems to me, this is great for Canadian oil concerns. Is there any assurance that once refined down at the gulf, that the product, what ever it may be, be returned and sold here in the US? Are we, as Americans sure that fuel is not going to be sold offshore elsewhere? Do we have that assurance?
If the federal government is to recieve lease royalties, I would much rather have gasoline at the consumer end instead of throwing money down a deep, dark, deficit hole.
This is not American crude, not an American outfit, it this fuel destined for American markets?
If the northern section of XL is approved the Texas land owners have nothing to worry about. The Southern Expansion project (NOT XL!!) is already under construction. Those TX land-owners have already been compensated for the piece of any ROW which had to be procured. Construction on Southern Expansion is in different stages of completion, one section or spread as it is known in the pipeline world is a little further along than a couple of others due to weather, permit issues, and the fact that the gas company (Trans-Canada) is constantly checking, double-checking, triple checking the integrity of the pipe, welds, safety features, etc. Completion of the southern section was to have been completed by April but completion date has been now set back by months. This is a good thing! This isn't the same pipeline construction methods of 30 years ago.
As far as assurances... The product (I applaud you for knowing the difference!) will become part of the global market, just as all refined product does. Some will stay here in the states, some will be shipped.
If the northern section of XL is approved the Texas land owners have nothing to worry about. The Southern Expansion project (NOT XL!!) is already under construction. Those TX land-owners have already been compensated for the piece of any ROW which had to be procured. Construction on Southern Expansion is in different stages of completion, one section or spread as it is known in the pipeline world is a little further along than a couple of others due to weather, permit issues, and the fact that the gas company (Trans-Canada) is constantly checking, double-checking, triple checking the integrity of the pipe, welds, safety features, etc. Completion of the southern section was to have been completed by April but completion date has been now set back by months. This is a good thing! This isn't the same pipeline construction methods of 30 years ago.
As far as assurances... The product (I applaud you for knowing the difference!) will become part of the global market, just as all refined product does. Some will stay here in the states, some will be shipped.
Let me just say, being compensated does not mean given approval. I understand the two section difference. TransCanada has a right to get their product to market, they should not have the right to take Texan's land to do so...
With the product being part of the global market, there is no assurance that it will remain here in the US...correct? That is up to the Canadian producer...correct? "Some" is an undefined quantity.
So why not full disclosure as to what is in it for the American consumer?
Last edited by Chimuelojones; 03-02-2013 at 07:07 AM..
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
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90% of the land-owner's signed on the dotted-line quite easily and happily. You need to remember that the Southern Expansion was a 480 some mile project. Yes, there were a few holdout's. There always is. Most of the time, I hate to say this, but it comes down to greed. But, yes there are a few for different reasons. Great friend is a landman and you should hear the stories he tells..
I can see why you ask about disclosure to the American consumer.. but.. to be quite frank.. the American consumer (and yes, me included) is usually quite stupid about the true nature of products. I grew up in the oil industry, hubby is third generation pipeline construction, so this is the one we just happen to know. Put me in a manufacturing situation, I'd be as stupid as everyone else. No matter what you tell the American public, they will believe what they WANT to believe. Too many arm-chair "experts", popping in with their opinions have convinced the general population that all pipelines are bad. Too many who say nothing wrong. There are good things and bad things about Keystone XL. And yes.. this comes from someone who I can almost guarantee will be there working on the darn thing. But, if I've learned nothing from C-D, the American consumer really doesn't want to know the truth as long as it doesn't effect them and their ability to post their ideas as fact.
Tar Sands crude is of the "heavy sour" variety that makes great plastic, but terrible petrol, diesel, and other transportation fuels.
Everything I've read says that Keystone XL will not lessen U.S. dependence on foreign oil, but rather transport Canadian oil to American refineries for export to overseas markets.
I have a real problem with using eminent domain to force US landowners to have the pipe run through their land for a foreign county (even one that is our best ally, and trust me, I love Canada.)
I have a real problem with running oil pipes over Nebraska's Aquifer (as does Nebraska's Republican Governor.)
If Canada thinks it's no big deal to run these pipes (environmentally speaking) then they should run them East to the St. Lawrence seaway (a stunningly beautiful part of the country btw).
90% of the land-owner's signed on the dotted-line quite easily and happily. You need to remember that the Southern Expansion was a 480 some mile project. Yes, there were a few holdout's. There always is. Most of the time, I hate to say this, but it comes down to greed. But, yes there are a few for different reasons. Great friend is a landman and you should hear the stories he tells..
I can see why you ask about disclosure to the American consumer.. but.. to be quite frank.. the American consumer (and yes, me included) is usually quite stupid about the true nature of products. I grew up in the oil industry, hubby is third generation pipeline construction, so this is the one we just happen to know. Put me in a manufacturing situation, I'd be as stupid as everyone else. No matter what you tell the American public, they will believe what they WANT to believe. Too many arm-chair "experts", popping in with their opinions have convinced the general population that all pipelines are bad. Too many who say nothing wrong. There are good things and bad things about Keystone XL. And yes.. this comes from someone who I can almost guarantee will be there working on the darn thing. But, if I've learned nothing from C-D, the American consumer really doesn't want to know the truth as long as it doesn't effect them and their ability to post their ideas as fact.
90%[if that is the correct percentage] have the right to do with what they wish with their land, that does not negate the rights of the other 10%.
If the Chinese can protect property rights why cant Texas land commissioner or the Texas Railroad commission?
One of the hold outs is upset because the pipeline divides his property in such a way that access is denied to the other half of his farm. I think it is in Liberty County.
When did the USA and the state of Texas start taking people's land to give to a foreign company? So what if the countries are friendly. That does not give them the right to folks land.
The sludge from that pipeline is going to a free port refinery in Port Arthur, I'd bet the rent money that it is headed for China. Then the Chinese will make plastic crap that nobody wants and sell it back to us. Then they can buy more USA bonds.
If that oil is so needed, let the Canadians run the pipeline to their west coast to ship to China. Have you seen what they are doing to their own selves to get the damn stuff? Makes about as much sense as what the USA is doing to get coal. At least the USA government gets $5 an acre for the coal companies to trash God's green earth.
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