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What about those who cannot afford paying the $7000?
Millions of Americans do not have health care insurance
They take their chances and if something happens to them, they go to the ER, and other people have to pay the bill. I have always had insurance, but one thing always made me uneasy, and that is the possibility of losing all you have because the insurance hits the limit, and you have to sell your house to pay the medical bills.
I think if America concentrated its resources more on improving quality of life rather than on dominating access to other nations' resources, we'd be a much happier and less divided society.
I was born in Norway, left there when I was one, spent another year there when I was 13. American citizen now.
My knee-jerk reaction to the OP question was the same as some other posters on here - don't like the government owning so much, don't like government dictating operational policy to private companies etc. etc. But here is a link demonstrating that Norway has a very healthy budget surplus anticipated for 2013:
So I'm not going to criticize them because whatever they're doing seems to work for them and you can't mess with success.
Given Norways' history during WW2 I am constantly surprised at their gun laws and their progressive attitudes. But that's another thread for another day, and again, it seems to be working for them.
Given their abundance of oil, I'd rather we buy it from Norway than from desert crap-hole-countries run by people who hate us. But then, I'd also rather we drill our own and keep the money here.
I was born in Norway, left there when I was one, spent another year there when I was 13. American citizen now.
My knee-jerk reaction to the OP question was the same as some other posters on here - don't like the government owning so much, don't like government dictating operational policy to private companies etc. etc. But here is a link demonstrating that Norway has a very healthy budget surplus anticipated for 2013:
So I'm not going to criticize them because whatever they're doing seems to work for them and you can't mess with success.
Exactly. Whatever works best in a given environment is the way to go.
Quote:
Given Norways' history during WW2 I am constantly surprised at their gun laws and their progressive attitudes. But that's another thread for another day, and again, it seems to be working for them.
The problem with wanting the United states to become more like Scandinavia. Is that you first have to address, what is Scandinavia anyway? And why is Scandinavia as seemingly successful as it is?
Lets look at the success of Scandinavia. What has made it successful? And what exactly is success anyway?
As a general rule, we gauge success by a country's economic development. Basically, we call a country successful if it is rich. It really wouldn't matter how much equality or education or weeks of vacation a country has. If it was poor, then it would be considered a failure, if it is rich, it is successful.
So the question then is, why is Scandinavia so rich? What drives the economy of the richest country in the region, Norway?
Norway might be highly educated, but is Norway the most highly educated country in the world? If the Norwegians were less educated, would they be any more poor? Does the five weeks of vacation a year make their economy stronger or larger? Does the five weeks of vacation a year increase the availability of goods and services in the country. Of which, the real definition of wealth is the relative access to goods and services. Does the five weeks of vacation a year increase the productivity or efficiency of the workers in Norway?
If we look at Scandinavia more objectively, has the socialism in Scandinavia actually created the wealth of Scandinavia? If we were to adopt all of the social policies of Scandinavia in the United States, would we become more wealthy, or more poor?
I mean, lets just take one policy you advocated for, five guaranteed weeks of vacation, and 18 weeks maternity leave. Would that make this country richer or poorer?
Norway for instance has a population of about 5 million people, and produces about 2 million barrels of oil a day. The United States has a population of 310 million, and produces 9 million barrels of oil a day. Which means that per-capita, Norway produces almost 14 times more oil than the United States. Qatar produces 1.63 million barrels a day, with a population of 1.9 million. Which means it produces about 29.3 times as much oil as the United States per-capita.
I think there are positive aspects of Scandinavia. But its economic model is not very impressive. To a large extent, Norway has the same economic model as Kuwait. Sweden has the same economic model as Russia. The only difference, is that Sweden and Norway have a far smaller population, so its wealth is greater per-capita. Take Russia for instance, for it to have the same oil production per-capita as Norway, it would need to have a population of only 25 million people(it currently has 141 million). Imagine how high the per-capita GDP in Russia might be, if it had a population of only 25 million people.
Let me go on by saying something else about education. It is not economically beneficial for every single person to have a college degree. The truth is, a very large percentage of the population will be employed in areas that simply do not require a formal education. And by holding people out of the marketplace, who don't need the four years or more of education, you are actually hurting the economy.
The actual positive aspects of Scandinavia. Are largely a result of its relative homogeneity. That homogeneity reduces social and political friction, encourages cooperation, and helps to limit the debilitating nature of the welfare state.
Of course, the only way to become more like Scandinavia. Would require a near complete stoppage of all immigration. The deportation of the "undocumented" immigrants that are already here. And a social pressure for mono-culturalism through semi-forced assimilation(public-schools, official language, protectionist trade policies, etc). As well as to some extent, creating an official church of the United States, which is funded through taxation.
We would still be far poorer than Scandinavia, and we would become even poorer as a consequence. But it would be easier to implement the social justice and equality proposals that many on the left have advocated for.
Anyway, I used to be obsessed with Scandinavia. The problem with wanting to become like Scandinavia. Is that really, if you start to study Scandinavia. You realize, to actually want to turn the United States into Scandinavia, you would effectively need to have the mentality of a Nazi(national socialist). And you might as well start hanging around on the Stormfront website, demanding social/cultural isolationism.
The truth is, if we were actually the humanitarians that we claim to be. We would implement effectively libertarian polices on the governmental level. The reason why is, the structure of our economy allows it, and benefits from it.
The structure of Norway's economy is based on natural resources, instead of human capital. Since a huge chunk of its economy is based on natural resources, which are finite. Then that means the larger its population, the poorer each person is... Thus there is a social and political need to limit the population, which means to heavily limit immigration. Which creates an "Us vs Them" mentality. Which creates barriers, and limits freedom.
In the United States, our economy is largely based on human capital, and human capital is practically infinite. Thus, the United States does not become more poor by a growing population. Thus, the economy of the United States does not need to have an "Us vs them" mentality attached to it. It does not need to create or perpetuate barriers, and thus, it does not need to limit anyone's freedom.
Not only is becoming anything remotely similar to Scandinavia impossible for the United States. Anyone advocating for such a thing, is a fool.
I think the problem with advocating something like, should America become more like Scandinavia. Is to first address, what is Scandinavia anyway? And why is Scandinavia as seemingly successful as it is?
Nope, doesn't matter.
Scandinavia is successful. Therefore if we pass the same laws, we will be successful too.
Should America be more like Scandinavia? How would it look like if we were?
What do you think?
* 5 - 6 weeks paid vacation for all workers
* Very long paid maternity/parental leave (18 months in Sweden)
* Less working hours
* Small gap between rich and poor
* Very low poverty
* Free national health care
* Free school/college
* High GDP per capita & low unemployment rate
did you forget to mention the very high tax rate, or that citizens cant own firearms? I dont want the government to be able to tell me what services i can or cant get inwith my health insurance.
Should America be more like Scandinavia? How would it look like if we were?
What do you think?
* 5 - 6 weeks paid vacation for all workers
* Very long paid maternity/parental leave (18 months in Sweden)
* Less working hours
* Small gap between rich and poor
* Very low poverty
* Free national health care
* Free school/college
* High GDP per capita & low unemployment rate
For many reasons this would never work: 1-you don't mention their tax structure, why? Because you would rather not think about that and 2-Your are talking about countries that are zillion times smaller than America.
No, I'm saying that the government should not DICTATE if employers give holidays / vacations or not.
That means they can make people work 18 hours a day 365 days a year if they want to.
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Should America be more like Scandinavia?
