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How does the USA ration healthcare for someone that has insurance?
You're kidding? Every health insurance policy to every other insurance company==PPOs--HMOs, VA, medicare, medicaid, Indian Health all rationed care. We are about the most rationed in the delivery of health care in the modern world because of its so fragmented. Which doesn't mean the US lacks the best care that money can buy.
What, people don't have heart attacks in a free market system? Coulda fooled me!
You didn't do anything special. You b*tched, they gave you a discount. I've heard if you protest your property tax assessment, they lower it. Big Whoop.
Baloney. We still have public hospitals.
It's so frustrating to try to discuss this issue with people who will not open their minds to something other than "unfettered free market system".
I generally endorse the free market but for Healthcare it does not work.
There is no way any free market enterprise puts health above profit. It just cannot be done.
And by the way -currently we do not actually have a free market- we have a bunch oligopolies controlling the business cycle.
Which I would argue is much better than having a bureaucrat rationing it for me. In a free market my ability to pay is the only thing that will limit my access.
If I get cancer my insurance covers it. If I have money the hospital will treat me even if I don't have insurance. In the single payer systems the actual care received is rationed. The study you posted concluded that PA could save money by going to a Canadian style healthcare plan. Canada is cheaper because they provide less care. The USA doesn't ration care that way.
"However, only 37% of the procedures overall were completed within the requested waiting time. Of the 8030 patients, 50 (0.6%) died, 32 (0.4%) had a myocardial infarction and 41 (0.5%) experienced congestive heart failure.....Patients awaiting cardiac catheterization may experience major adverse events, such as death, myocardial infarction and congestive heart failure, which may be preventable. Our findings provide a benchmark by which to measure the effect of increased capacity and prioritization schemes that allow earlier access for patients at higher risk, such as those with aortic stenosis and reduced left ventricular function."
In other words, you don't even have anecdotal experience with healthcare being rationed. Bread isn't rationed either but the store will make you pay for it first.
Interesting tables there. Which lefty poster will be the first to step up to the plate and comment? (I'm not holding my breath).
What, people don't have heart attacks in a free market system? Coulda fooled me!
Yeah, that's what I said. And you call me frustrating. lols.
You didn't do anything special. You b*tched, they gave you a discount. I've heard if you protest your property tax assessment, they lower it. Big Whoop.
I negoitiated a price that we both thought was fair. Happens everyday and not just in haelth care. No bitching or protesting involved. I thought it cost it more than it should. They said give us $1,700 and that will be good. I don't understand why everyone aint doing that.
Baloney. We still have public hospitals.
I was referring to Catholic Charity Hospitals. Never said we didn't have public hospitals. Once Obamacare kicks i they will all be public for practical purposes.
It's so frustrating to try to discuss this issue with people who will not open their minds to something other than "unfettered free market system".
It's so frustrating to try and discuss this issue with people who will not open their minds to something other than giving politicians control over our lives.
I generally endorse the free market but for Healthcare it does not work.
There is no way any free market enterprise puts health above profit. It just cannot be done.
And by the way -currently we do not actually have a free market- we have a bunch oligopolies controlling the business cycle.
Works pretty ****ing good in El Salvador. The article doesn't mention it, but the doctors there were predominately trained in United States medical schools.
You're kidding? Every health insurance policy to every other insurance company==PPOs--HMOs, VA, medicare, medicaid, Indian Health all rationed care. We are about the most rationed in the delivery of health care in the modern world because of its so fragmented. Which doesn't mean the US lacks the best care that money can buy.
Actually we are the least rationed in terms of actual healthcare. We will spend whatever it takes to save an infant life or prolong life. Other countries don't do that. The insurance company may not agree to pay for a procedure, but the care isn't rationed. If I didn't put the insurance provision in my statement someone would have come along and said "poor people can't afford insurance and can't get healthcare so it is rationed"
Just a couple years ago I went to the emergency room and the bill was gonna be $2,500. I talked 'em down to $1,700.
Everything can work in a free market. We had free market healthcare in the United States until the 1960s. Worked fine.
There are plenty of countries where free-market healthcare is working as I type this.
Don't be narrow. Many go to the hospital half dead. Who's doing the haggling then, Jesus Christ?
And it wasn't the best in the 60s either and name the countries that have a pure market driven healthcare system that isn't a third world country and that includes Brazil.
Actually we are the least rationed in terms of actual healthcare. We will spend whatever it takes to save an infant life or prolong life. Other countries don't do that. The insurance company may not agree to pay for a procedure, but the care isn't rationed. If I didn't put the insurance provision in my statement someone would have come along and said "poor people can't afford insurance and can't get healthcare so it is rationed"
Many times the care is denied and the patient may not even realize it until they dump their current insurance and pick up another and then find out what they've been denied. I've seen it happen and it happens quite frequently.
Interesting tables there. Which lefty poster will be the first to step up to the plate and comment? (I'm not holding my breath).
Good, you'd pass out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679
Which I would argue is much better than having a bureaucrat rationing it for me. In a free market my ability to pay is the only thing that will limit my access.
If I get cancer my insurance covers it. If I have money the hospital will treat me even if I don't have insurance. In the single payer systems the actual care received is rationed. The study you posted concluded that PA could save money by going to a Canadian style healthcare plan. Canada is cheaper because they provide less care. The USA doesn't ration care that way.
Ya think? Your insurance will cover certain treatments. Many docs will not even see you if you don't have insurance, and many hospitals will not admit you if you are uninsured. There have been many examples posted here on CD. You may do a search.
Many times the care is denied and the patient may not even realize it until they dump their current insurance and pick up another and then find out what they've been denied. I've seen it happen and it happens quite frequently.
Ok, there is a difference between healthcare and health insurance. Other countries deny or delay the actual care which diminishes the survival odds. The USA doesn't do that. There are plenty of poor insurance companies, but quite a few nice ones with generous policies.
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