Che Guevara - Villain or Hero? (soldier, weapons, compared, Maine)
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Yes, I've read that Castro and Che had a "talk/meeting" after Che made statements that seemed to favor China over the USSR when Che returned to Cuba. Although many deny it, I think that they did have a "falling out" and that Che would never admit that or do anything that may hurt the cause of the revolution. Then you have his April 1965 farewell letter to Castro. And, yes, I've read that indeed the Communists in Bolivia betrayed Che, which led to his capture and death.
Che was as big an influence in the U.S. during the '60s as now and maybe even more so. Che is a symbol of rebellion. Che's photo is symbolic language. He was not perfect. He was not pure evil. He was a person who believed so deeply in his cause that he ultimately lost his life for that cause. He was a person with physical limitations from the time of his childhood which was a very debilitating asthma, yet he continued on.
There must be, even now, many Cuban exiles in the U.S. who personally knew what was happening in Cuba before they escaped. In fact, there are Miami politicians who are relatives of Castro, the Diaz-Balart family. Do you know of any books written by any of those exiles?
I have read what I could find from Cuban exiles and it supports my previous posts. Che played second fiddle to Castro so you don't find much 1st hand stuff on the Internet, mostly book reference.
Che was part of the revolution and was inspiring to his followers but he enjoyed killing, and letters and his journel quotes prove that. Between his quotes and the limited first hand information I have been able to find, it is very easy to believe he was a murder and an evil person.
When you saw the beaming look on Che's face as the victims were tied to the stake and blasted apart by his firing squads," said a former Cuban political prisoner Roberto Martin-Perez Celebrating The Anniversary Of Che Guevera's Execution
My nostrils dilate while savoring the acrid odor of gunpowder and blood. Crazy with fury I will stain my rifle red while slaughtering any vencido that falls in my hands! With the deaths of my enemies I prepare my being for the sacred fight and join the triumphant proletariat with a bestial howl!” This passage is from Ernesto Guevara’s famous Motorcycle Diaries
the OP here proves that. If you compare what he says about left wing Che to what he says about right wing Pinochet, one is "he used his authority to force good socialist ideas" and the other is "he had no right to force capitalist ideas". The force is the same but if he likes the system being imposed on the people then the person doing the imposing gets a pass for being an authoritarian, while if he doesn't like the system being imposed then authoritarian methods are bad.
A lot of people have a "ends justify the means" philosophy on both sides of politics.
Too right they do.
Pinochet was a vile piece of **** supported by the establishment of owners, conservatives etc to supress the poor.
He should have been taken out along with all his associates.
Any dictator worth their salt has to either subvert the church to control people....or kick them out. Most of the time you just use maleable religious leaders but with the catholic churchs roots out of his control he had to resort to expulsion.
Too right - that is the correct thing to have done.
The Catholic church is a ****ing abomination and ought to be destroyed!
Osama bin Laden was a lot like Che except more simple and less courageous. But in the end he devoted his life for his cause. He even sacrificed the opulent lifestyle he could have lived for the rest of his life to fight his enemy.
hmmm, seems to me bin Laden did actually a lot of "hiding".....so lack of courage. Che was out in the world fighting for his cause, trying to liberate the oppressed, when captured and executed.
I have read what I could find from Cuban exiles and it supports my previous posts. Che played second fiddle to Castro so you don't find much 1st hand stuff on the Internet, mostly book reference.
Che was part of the revolution and was inspiring to his followers but he enjoyed killing, and letters and his journel quotes prove that. Between his quotes and the limited first hand information I have been able to find, it is very easy to believe he was a murder and an evil person.
When you saw the beaming look on Che's face as the victims were tied to the stake and blasted apart by his firing squads," said a former Cuban political prisoner Roberto Martin-Perez Celebrating The Anniversary Of Che Guevera's Execution
My nostrils dilate while savoring the acrid odor of gunpowder and blood. Crazy with fury I will stain my rifle red while slaughtering any vencido that falls in my hands! With the deaths of my enemies I prepare my being for the sacred fight and join the triumphant proletariat with a bestial howl!” This passage is from Ernesto Guevara’s famous Motorcycle Diaries
IMO, you pick and choose quotes out of context, the context of the life of Che, in order to support your claim he was a mass murderer and a vile human being. I think he was much more complicated than that. You seem also to have no knowledge of the good work done by Che and his friend at the leprosy colony during Motorcycle Diaries trip.....or you choose not to mention it.
Do you consider U.S. soldiers to be mass murderers when they kill "enemies"? The Cuban Revolution was a war, guerrilla warfare for sure, and a war nonetheless. People get killed and executed in "wars"......and after violent revolutions.
I continue to wonder if you are a Cuban exile from the early '60s.
Too right - that is the correct thing to have done.
The Catholic church is a ****ing abomination and ought to be destroyed!
It is a bastion of hypocrisy, lies and death.
Wow-
As a Catholic, I guess I would beg to differ with you. True, the Catholic church has had problems, particularly with recent sex scandals with priests. One must keep in mind that it has been a minority of cardinals and bishops that have shielded these criminal priests. The majority of cardinals and bishops have dealt with the problems they have faced.
1. The Church itself it an organization through which Christianity is administered
2. All organizations, regardless of mission, are corrupted (do you think that Prostestants, Muslims, Jews, Shintos, ect,,,,,,, have not had scandals?)
3. People of faith go to church to hear the word of God as told by the Bible with interpretation by the priest
4. Many people, faced with death (myself included) derive tremendous comfort from the church. I always feel better after I go to Mass, even when I felt as though I would be dead in a few months, one way or another. I really did not feel as though I was "buying" salvation by attendance- I did not care one way or another. It just gave me faith and made it much easier to face death, regardless of the ultimate outcome.
Unless you have been in a similar situation, you cannot judge those who attend church. It is not for "public consumption", but is a personal, private association with Chirst, as administered through the church.
5. The Catholic Church, through Catholic Relief Services, sends a ton of money overseas to disadvantaged people. The Catholic Church really steps up to the plate and actually provides food, medicine and housing. Say what you want about the Catholics, but they deliver to the poor inside and outside the US.
As a Catholic, I guess I would beg to differ with you. True, the Catholic church has had problems, particularly with recent sex scandals with priests. One must keep in mind that it has been a minority of cardinals and bishops that have shielded these criminal priests. The majority of cardinals and bishops have dealt with the problems they have faced.
1. The Church itself it an organization through which Christianity is administered
2. All organizations, regardless of mission, are corrupted (do you think that Prostestants, Muslims, Jews, Shintos, ect,,,,,,, have not had scandals?)
3. People of faith go to church to hear the word of God as told by the Bible with interpretation by the priest
4. Many people, faced with death (myself included) derive tremendous comfort from the church. I always feel better after I go to Mass, even when I felt as though I would be dead in a few months, one way or another. I really did not feel as though I was "buying" salvation by attendance- I did not care one way or another. It just gave me faith and made it much easier to face death, regardless of the ultimate outcome.
Unless you have been in a similar situation, you cannot judge those who attend church. It is not for "public consumption", but is a personal, private association with Chirst, as administered through the church.
5. The Catholic Church, through Catholic Relief Services, sends a ton of money overseas to disadvantaged people. The Catholic Church really steps up to the plate and actually provides food, medicine and housing. Say what you want about the Catholics, but they deliver to the poor inside and outside the US.
None of your words mean anything to a 10 year old who was raped by a priest.
IMO, you pick and choose quotes out of context, the context of the life of Che, in order to support your claim he was a mass murderer and a vile human being. I think he was much more complicated than that. You seem also to have no knowledge of the good work done by Che and his friend at the leprosy colony during Motorcycle Diaries trip.....or you choose not to mention it.
Do you consider U.S. soldiers to be mass murderers when they kill "enemies"? The Cuban Revolution was a war, guerrilla warfare for sure, and a war nonetheless. People get killed and executed in "wars"......and after violent revolutions.
I continue to wonder if you are a Cuban exile from the early '60s.
Death during warfare is expected. I have not commented on death during the actual revolution, most of his killings were at la cubana after the revolution. Death of captives where one person is judge, jury and executioner is completely different and unexcusable.
None of your words mean anything to a 10 year old who was raped by a priest.
Thank you for that insightful comment, it really moved the conversation along.
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