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Old 10-26-2007, 02:52 PM
 
20,263 posts, read 19,850,330 times
Reputation: 13349

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Quote:
Well, you can go live in the mountains and hunt deer and bear all you want then, if you really want to be a loner.
No thanks. I don't hunt. And I like an active social life. After re-reading my posts, I'm not sure how you pegged me there.

Quote:
Most people on the left don't want to force ordinary people to do anything they don't want to do, and it certainly insn't about government restriction.
Okay. Most people on the right are not the heartless "it's all about me, myself and I" types either. It's funny how posts seem to veer to pointing out and running with perceived extremes.

Quote:
For too long it has been the right wing in this country telling people what to do, how to live, what to do with their own bodies, whom to love, what to think.
I don't think any in power, left, middle or right, is without sin in that dept.


Quote:
I know you'll retort with "taxes", but most liberals view taxes as user fees.
Maybe they do, I'll take your word for what most liberals think about taxes. I consider them a cost of running a society whether you use a particular service or not. I pretty much complain when I feel the citizens are getting nowhere near their money's worth. I that sentiment cuts across all ideologies.

If you lived in NJ, like I do, you would know exactly what I mean.

Quote:
Rich people just happen to get more marginal utility out of things like roads, police, and the like. When you live in a cardboard box on an apartment (the low end of the socioeconomic ladder), an interstate road or police department doesn't benefit you as much as somebody who owns a trucking company or has millions of dollars worth of art that needs protecting
Yes, the impoverished will never benefit as much as the lower, middle and upper classes. No one has has come up with a fix to that yet. If there is one, lets hear it and implement it.

Maybe education by absolute force? Might sound good for results but I'm uncomfortable with it.

As far as protecting art, I'm not following you on how that fits here but I'll take a wild stab at it. If the taxpayers are paying to protect a private citizen's art collection, that needs to stop, pronto.

Last edited by doc1; 10-26-2007 at 03:10 PM.. Reason: spelling, as always.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,462 posts, read 7,995,624 times
Reputation: 1237
Katz

great post, And this is totally understandable. The amount of economic insecurity has has never been so widespread in the nation. With corporations having so much power, they have made ordinary workers into 'drones' , who have little job security, working harder brings no guarantees; there is the specter of diminishing benefits like health care, and the virtual elimination of of pensions.

The need for the biggest SUV, biggest Mc Mansion, best clothes; it all a mirage.

Many people are deep in debt, there is a record low savings rate. Many are seeing a decline in home prices (just beginning) People bought homes under the impression that home prices would go up forever (and that would be their retirement nest egg)

The housing debacle is just beginning. Loose your job, loose your health care; oops your next job may not offer health care. Have the added stress of health care costs, plus debt, plus education costs for your kids-escalating in price.

Stress? unhappy people? Worry? Why not?

Last edited by skytrekker; 10-26-2007 at 05:50 PM..
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:51 PM
 
25,080 posts, read 16,304,106 times
Reputation: 41803
I think Americans are stressed, but is it just Americans? There is so much trouble in the world and especially America. I am concerned about the upcoming elections, the war, health care, gas prices, the fires in California and not to mention the every day stuff like family, kids, work school and the future. I think there is enough stuff going on to cause a great deal of stress and stress related illness. Surely there is an end in sight???Hey...we have to be strong though and keep hope alive Peace to my fellow stressed out Americans.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,287,410 times
Reputation: 15285
Yeah, life's tough. Toys are expensive, and greed is persistent.

But think how stress-free death will be. And how long you're going to be dead.

Better rethink your complaints.
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Old 10-28-2007, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,239,057 times
Reputation: 11416
3C @ theIndependent.com Singer Greg Brown is fond of the simple life 11/10/00 (broken link)

On "Further In," released in 1996, Brown laments on "Two Little Feet" that, in today's world, "We have no knowledge and so we have stuff, but stuff without knowledge is never enough."
_________
Saganista: Millions of women don't get breast cancer every year. In an ownership society, people don't have the right to expect others to help out just because something bad happens to them.

Please don’t be so obtuse, it’s disingenuous. If we had decent medical care in the US, one medical problem wouldn’t’ bankrupt an entire family because of medical debt. What kind of a society are we? Or do we want to be. The “ownership society” is a nice political talking point. Not much else.

Do people realize that the US dollar is almost on par with the Canadian dollar? Currently, the Canadian dollar is .96. Pretty interesting. I spend a lot of time in SE Asia, the Thai baht is worth .31 to the dollar, that’s as low as it was in 1994/5. The US dollar is worth a lot less than it was 14 years ago.

As several people have stated, greed and fear are causing stress. Why do you need the big house, many cars and more & more junk? We make our own dukkha.
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Old 10-28-2007, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,203 posts, read 27,084,555 times
Reputation: 3946
Here's a list of some of the major stressors:

Checklist of Major Stressors

* Loneliness and Isolation
Loss of a spouse
Loss of family members due to death or relocation
Loss of friends
* Loss of purpose
May be due to retirement
Loss of being needed, such as no longer caring for family
Loss of a position in community (church organist, volunteer, etc.)
* Loss of independence in transportation
Loss of ability to drive
Lack of transportation services
Increased distance from family and/or friends due to moves
* Decreased financial independence
Financial changes after retirement
For very old adults, living longer than they planned and saved for
Increased health care costs for self and/or family members
* Changes in health
Deterioration in health
Increased dependence on others
Diagnosis with chronic illness or terminal disease
* Decreased physical independence
Loss of ability to live alone
Loss of energy
Loss of control over daily routine
Possible inability to do favorite activities
* Demands of caregiving
Care for a chronically ill spouse, parent, or other family member

And of course there are many others, both classified as major or minor.

Stress and moderate to high standard of living do not necessarily correlate, imo.
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Old 10-28-2007, 05:16 PM
 
435 posts, read 1,519,432 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
I blame some of the right-wing thinking for causing stress. Right wing ideology is focused on individualism. The problem with individualism is sometimes it causes people to loose focus on the community, which is an important support network for dealing with stress and emotional issues. If community ties are weakened, people will face stresses alone and have to resort to drugs or harmful behaviors to deal with them, and/or it will take a toll on a person's physical and mental health.

There are some incredibly poor countries in the world but they at least have community, that's an important asset. Americans in many ways are poor in that sense if you look at it in that perspective, so I think comparing Americans' lives to those in other countries is irrelevent.

Another example is how we are planning, or rather, not planning our cities and suburban developement. Nothing is on a human scale anymore (by human scale, I mean that a person could walk or bicycle around an area to meet most of their needs). Suburban sprawl is isolating on Americans. If you spend your time in a cocoon of a car, you don't rub shoulders with other people and automaticly loose out on alot of human contact and potential for social interactions. You would be shocked to learn the average person in a suburb is much more likely to face depression than somebody even living in an inner city neighborhood. And yet this lifestyle is held up as a model for the nation to pursue as aspiration. This style of developement is being fostered by mega-corporations and their right-wing supports (to be fair, some more communitarian-minded on the right are supportive of traditional urban developement, but on the whole the right-wing in the US is pro-growth, pro-business-at-all-costs).

Nice USSR hit piece there. The most stressed-out, expensive, single-parent, materialistic states are Blue states. California? Hollywood. Illinois? Big buisness. New York? ROFLAMO.


(Edit): I will say this, we do need more days off thou! On that front, me and the Left are very much in agreement.
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Old 10-28-2007, 05:17 PM
 
2,971 posts, read 2,252,287 times
Reputation: 658
Oh no, dirty word; individualism.
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Old 10-28-2007, 08:47 PM
 
1,354 posts, read 4,576,381 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Absolutely true! I think this plus the general lack of family ties and the way people all live separate lives, generally speaking, leads to the stress. I read somewhere that people in America have fewer and fewer true friends than in earlier generations, and that for like half the people surveyed the only true friend they could point to was their spouse/significant other. That all ties into the rat race. People have less time to develop relationships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
I blame some of the right-wing thinking for causing stress. Right wing ideology is focused on individualism. The problem with individualism is sometimes it causes people to loose focus on the community, which is an important support network for dealing with stress and emotional issues. If community ties are weakened, people will face stresses alone and have to resort to drugs or harmful behaviors to deal with them, and/or it will take a toll on a person's physical and mental health.

There are some incredibly poor countries in the world but they at least have community, that's an important asset. Americans in many ways are poor in that sense if you look at it in that perspective, so I think comparing Americans' lives to those in other countries is irrelevent.

Another example is how we are planning, or rather, not planning our cities and suburban developement. Nothing is on a human scale anymore (by human scale, I mean that a person could walk or bicycle around an area to meet most of their needs). Suburban sprawl is isolating on Americans. If you spend your time in a cocoon of a car, you don't rub shoulders with other people and automaticly loose out on alot of human contact and potential for social interactions. You would be shocked to learn the average person in a suburb is much more likely to face depression than somebody even living in an inner city neighborhood. And yet this lifestyle is held up as a model for the nation to pursue as aspiration. This style of developement is being fostered by mega-corporations and their right-wing supports (to be fair, some more communitarian-minded on the right are supportive of traditional urban developement, but on the whole the right-wing in the US is pro-growth, pro-business-at-all-costs).
Quote:
Originally Posted by silas777 View Post
what it says is , people might want to get the proper perspective on what is really important in life, simplify their lives, count their blessings, realize that they have got it better than the vast majority of people in the rest of the world, get away from the "me" attitude, and think about what they are really doing with their life! A prayer life helps too! "I want to be a happy idiot and struggle for the legal tender"~Jackson Brown. Not a very good way to live!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz View Post
Makes perfect sense to me. And let's compound that overwork with very limited health care + very little social security... And yes, now we can start comparing ourselves to the less advanced countries of the world (vs. the more advanced) so that we can continue to falsely assure ourselves of how good we have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhlcomp View Post
I agree with doc1. I lived half of my life in developing/third world countries. I don't know a single American of this generation who could possible last a week under the conditions we had to live in and I thought we had it good.

We have become a nation of people who are shallow, self absorbed, introlerant, misinformed, uneducated, impatient, intellectually lazy, superficial, do not accept responsibility for what happens to us - need I say more? And what is sad, is that we have such potential to be the opposite.

When I see statistics or studies about Americans and our "plight" as a nation - one has to really sit back and consider what got us to this point in the first place and take some responsibility. Just my observation. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skytrekker View Post
Katz

great post, And this is totally understandable. The amount of economic insecurity has has never been so widespread in the nation. With corporations having so much power, they have made ordinary workers into 'drones' , who have little job security, working harder brings no guarantees; there is the specter of diminishing benefits like health care, and the virtual elimination of of pensions.

The need for the biggest SUV, biggest Mc Mansion, best clothes; it all a mirage.

Many people are deep in debt, there is a record low savings rate. Many are seeing a decline in home prices (just beginning) People bought homes under the impression that home prices would go up forever (and that would be their retirement nest egg)

The housing debacle is just beginning. Loose your job, loose your health care; oops your next job may not offer health care. Have the added stress of health care costs, plus debt, plus education costs for your kids-escalating in price.

Stress? unhappy people? Worry? Why not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sun queen View Post
I think Americans are stressed, but is it just Americans? There is so much trouble in the world and especially America. I am concerned about the upcoming elections, the war, health care, gas prices, the fires in California and not to mention the every day stuff like family, kids, work school and the future. I think there is enough stuff going on to cause a great deal of stress and stress related illness. Surely there is an end in sight???Hey...we have to be strong though and keep hope alive Peace to my fellow stressed out Americans.
I think you all gave great posts/opinions and I must say that there is nothing more I can add, other than the post from Sangista commenting on the cancer patient who was forced to file bankruptcy.
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Old 10-28-2007, 08:50 PM
 
2,881 posts, read 6,078,969 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
I think a better understanding of how many in the world are forced to live, with little or no hope, would help many of those in the US have a better perspective on what real stress is.

It's hard to take serious a poll that says that 33% of US citizens are extremely stressed. Either that or we are just way too self absorbed.
Took the words right off my keyboard
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