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Old 03-23-2013, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,738 posts, read 1,990,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Sexual predators are like serial killers. They keep on offending. The damage they do goes on and on. Other types of assault (omitting serial killers) are, usually, situational. It's unusual to have someone who just, habitually, goes around assaulting people and when we do, we treat them like the predators they are. We have a sexual predator list for a reason. The rate of recivitism is high. Sexual offenders are preditors. They hunt for prey and they commit their crimes over and over and over. They are unable to control sexual urges. So, yes, they belong in a different category.

The crime itself is also worse than an assault. Bruises heal. The psyche doesn't. I was 14 and thought myself worthless for many years afterwards. I felt dirty. I simple assault couldn't accomplish that. I had one of those in high school too when a gang of girls who didn't like me decided to beat me up. Interestingly, no one said I asked for that but many did the other time (It was a bitter cold day and I had put on two pairs of pants to keep my legs warm (they said my pants were too tight) then accepted a ride from someone I knew casually (A guy a woman I used to baby sit for had dated.).
Not all sex offenders are predators tho. That's part of the problem, this list is so broad and they treat everyone on it the same. The AWA goes by the "victim's" age...not the actual risk factors of the "offender". So, like in my state , a person can claim that when they were 12, they were "felt up" by a neighbor...the accused gets scared into taking a plea by both DA and his public defender... gets a misdemeanor and ends up on the registry for life. And even if he went to trial, there's good chance he'd be found guilty, even with no actual evidence.
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:28 PM
 
2,096 posts, read 4,542,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post

But when it comes to forcible rape, I'd rather have the tar beaten out of me than ever be raped. I would want the perp to be executed.
To be honest I would lose sympathy for someone who wanted the perp to be executed. To be raped is horrible, but when people are that spiteful I figure that they must be hateful people too. I know I'm probably wrong to think that way but I don't think much of people who are all about an eye for an eye.
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:43 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,274,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
I really don't see how you can claim that she is guilty of rape?!?!?! She didn't rape herself and she didn't rape the boys. She was unconscious. She didn't realize that she was raped until witnesses told her and she saw pictures.

I have to be missing your point...I don't see how one can charge her with sexual assault...
Yeah, I was speaking in general terms. I wasn't talking about this situation. This football team thing is beyond any reasonable behavior.

I was just making a point in general about how the idea is a drunk woman is unable to give consent. It should be a drunk "person" is unable to give consent. Wasn't talking about this specific situation. That situation is no doubt a crime.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Holiday, FL
1,571 posts, read 1,937,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
No they are not.
Biologically and instinctively, humans are, indeed, animals. Our biological systems operate, virtually, the same as any other mammal. In that sense, we are. We like to think of ourselves as better, because of our sense of reason, our thought processes, and our intelligence. But, even with our sense of reason and intelligence, we still respond instinctively to various stimuli. So, all we are is just a bit farther up the chain.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:21 AM
 
10,092 posts, read 7,904,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I'm not condoning what the football players did - not at all. But something has always troubled me a little about this argument, and I'm not even sure if it applicable in this case because I haven't followed it. However, if the victim is said to be unable to consent, because being drunk distorts their judgement to the point that they are not responsible for their decisions or actions, why is the same not true for the perpetrator? I am thinking of cases where the guy is so drunk he has no memory of the events.
The victim in the Steubenville case had passed out. She wasn't moving, talking or responding. The boys were joking about her being a dead body. They raped her anyway.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
28,337 posts, read 15,004,856 times
Reputation: 5613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I'm not condoning what the football players did - not at all. But something has always troubled me a little about this argument, and I'm not even sure if it applicable in this case because I haven't followed it. However, if the victim is said to be unable to consent, because being drunk distorts their judgement to the point that they are not responsible for their decisions or actions, why is the same not true for the perpetrator? I am thinking of cases where the guy is so drunk he has no memory of the events.
I dont believe the boys were drunk, however i see your point. There have been a couple of Law and Order SVU episodes like this. not sure if the show actually follows real state laws, but their explanation was the same each time, that they were boys and that the girls were girls.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Holiday, FL
1,571 posts, read 1,937,698 times
Reputation: 1159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Sexual predators are like serial killers. They keep on offending. The damage they do goes on and on. Other types of assault (omitting serial killers) are, usually, situational. It's unusual to have someone who just, habitually, goes around assaulting people and when we do, we treat them like the predators they are. We have a sexual predator list for a reason. The rate of recivitism is high. Sexual offenders are preditors. They hunt for prey and they commit their crimes over and over and over. They are unable to control sexual urges. So, yes, they belong in a different category.

The crime itself is also worse than an assault. Bruises heal. The psyche doesn't. I was 14 and thought myself worthless for many years afterwards. I felt dirty. I simple assault couldn't accomplish that. I had one of those in high school too when a gang of girls who didn't like me decided to beat me up. Interestingly, no one said I asked for that but many did the other time (It was a bitter cold day and I had put on two pairs of pants to keep my legs warm (they said my pants were too tight) then accepted a ride from someone I knew casually (A guy a woman I used to baby sit for had dated.).
I know a few families where the father is a registered sex-offender. They've got kids and everything seems completely normal, except that the father must register.

The only girl he ever molested was his wife, when she was underage. And, she will tell you that she was as willing as he was. He was charged with "Statutory Rape", convicted, and served time. When they were older, the got married and started raising their family. But, he still has to register. I do not believe he belongs in with the ranks of "predators".

If you've ever been petting a male dog, with his paws on your lap... Then, you realize he's got a grip on your leg and is trying to find an opening below your knee cap... You are the victim of an attempted rape. By a dog. Not every dog will do that, which means the instinct varies from one dog to the next. I used to think that a sex-offender simply wasn't able to control his instinct as well as the next man. And, if it weren't for the punishment for rape, the rape/murders would not exist, either.

One day, while surfing the net, looking for information on some 4,000 year-old texts, one of the selections Bing gave me was a site devoted to..... Blood and sex. It looked as though the woman's throat was cut and she was being killed. I was ready to bring the police in, thinking someone had posted pictures of a murder. But, looking closer, the blood and knife were fake. The throat was not cut. If it's on the internet, there's an audience for it. It seems there are people out here that have a need for that to satisfy themselves. THAT is scary. And, what's even worse, I didn't have to have a membership, put in a password, or show that I was over 18 in order to see it. And, if I can stumble onto it, so can young teenagers.

The 19 year-old guy that dates a 15 year-old girl, gets sent up for Statutory Rape, and when he gets out, she's 20 and they get married, I really do not believe he needs to be registered for life. It's not the same thing as a 35 year-old man that has a 15 year-old sugar-baby. Or, the guy that climbs into a bedroom window, hides in the closet, and attacks a woman when she's going to sleep.

There are sex-offenders that need to be taken our of society, and kept out of society. There are others that need to be able to provide for their families, unhindered.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:16 AM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,662,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
There seem to be two general ideas about sexual offenses:

1) Ooooooh They was asking for it! (Victim blaming/trivializing)
2) OMG the victim will never ever get over it! Their life is ruined forever! Execute the perpetrator, they will never change! (Blowing the situation out of proportion)


Why can't people be rational and have an reasonable attitude towards sexual offenses? How come there's either this totally dismissive attitude, or this extreme reactionary stance?
It's a combination of slave mentality and feminism.

By blowing the situation out of proportion the victim or speaker can temporarily empower themselves.

Blaming the victim is a way of mentally dealing with an unpleasant event - rationalisation/head in the sand.

The feminist also takes power on by calling a man a creep when he isn't - but she is backed up by the general sheep consensus.

I blame the liberals and the PC bunch here, yet again.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:08 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 25,787,831 times
Reputation: 15629
Ever hear of a show called "Law and Order SVU"? I've watched this show for a while now but didn't really think about it's connection to this question.
I'm sure most are aware of the various CSI TV show's impact on trials and prosecutions, how these shows have altered peoples perception of reality when it comes to evidence making some prosecutions near impossible?
Well SVU's been on for years, starting each episode with ominous music, a low toned voice that says "these crimes are considered especially heinous". The show goes on to lay out some gut grabbing story that always results in a "dirt bag" going to prison or worse.
This kind of thing over and over again plays right into and bolsters the idea that there's one group that must be feared,hated,locked up forever no matter what the circumstances. Just the label alone had better make you hide the kids,lock the doors or take the person out on sight.
There's very rarely any shade of grey or complications explained since they've only got one hour to grab and hold your attention and sell you stuff.
People forget that life's more complicated than an hour long TV show, much easier to believe what we're spoon fed by that idiot box not to mention very popular and in vogue to hate a single group. Takes the heat and attention off others.
The biggest thing is fostering this climate of fear, whipping it up to a frenzy makes some people lots of MONEY.
Are there dangerous sex offenders out there? Sure. Just as there's dangerous robbers,car jackers,purse snatchers etc.
Do you fear them all and want to hide in your house in case one "may" be in the area?
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,738 posts, read 1,990,918 times
Reputation: 1483
Anyone who thinks life is like SVU or any other show needs help. They NEVER portray the truth. they're fictional dramas meant to entertain, not actually reflect real life
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