Bankrupt U.S. Quickly Sinking into Third World Status (employment, interviews, candidacy)

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

True.

The "high water mark" for the Reagan defense budgets was 1986, as Reagan and Congress were already paring back the spending, for reasons such as the mounting deficits and national debt and the in ability to simply spend that much money (actual bottleneck was the clunky process of contracting, so many steps, hoops, bells, whistles and Congressional oversight - it simply slows the process to the speed of molasses flowing uphill in a blizzard).

A few years after DoD budgets started to decline, I was sitting in my Army office in August 1990, helping to plan and execute the deployment of massive military force for Desert Storm. That SAME month of August 1990 they made us watch a video "starring" Army Chief of Staff General Gordon Sullivan. In that video, General Sullivan told us we'd be downsizing, but this time "we were going to do it right." Gen Sullivan used the example of a Korean War disaster called Task Force Smith as the sort of thing we'd avoid doing this time, and countless times he repeated, for emphasis, "NO MORE TASK FORCE SMITH'S." Famous last words.

Having back the 500,000+ plus Army soldiers they kicked out of the Army would sure be welcome now, wouldn't they?

Back to Disgusted's original topic of a bankrupt U.S.A., it was my oft-voiced opinion at least 10 years ago that the cold war bankrupted BOTH the USSR and the USA, only difference is that WE haven't realized it yet, that OUR ability to pull rabbits out of hats and borrow money is keeping us afloat.

I was delighted to see Clinton start paying off the debt and despondent when Bush gave a tax cuts to the wealthy, complete with stunning amounts of red ink, at the expense of future generations of working class Americans.

Bush-43 is a true disaster. The day of reckoning is out there. It's waiting.

s/Mike

Hey Mike,

We sure match on a lot of that. Man, the training budgets we had back in '86. I got stop-lossed into a line unit for Desert Nonsense. I recall after that sitting chatting with my CO about the fall of the Soviet Union and what it would do to US. I told him I thought it was about like a 1950 pre-history type movie -- where a couple of dinosaurs where fighting and one falls over the cliff. A little while later the second wounded one follows. (That would be US) And then the mammals and cavemen watching from behind the rocks rise up in victory.

Actually glad I cleared from IRR after they were getting snotty about cut-backs -- while I feel a little guilty about having the dormant skills and leadership experience that now seem so lacking -- I would probably wind up sitting in the jail cell next to Watada at this point.

I suppose bankruptcy has it ways of clearing the decks and deadwood away -- seemed to work for Russia. Hopefully we will do as well.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by Marodi

1) George Bush is a large part of the anti-americanism that is taking place in the world.
2) There are parts similar to. Go out to skid row. However on the whole we still have it pretty good and are still ranked top 5 or top 10 depending on the source for per capita GDP
3) I didn't bother reading his whole thing, but SBO has cut back on fraud.
4) It's illogical. I forget which stock it was, but the announced a MAJOR cut in revenue due to sub-prime mess, and their stock jumped 2%.

Then explain to me why the attacks against the the USS Cold and the first WTC attack happened during CLINTON.

The hatred these people have had goes back hundreds of years. Only difference between now and then, the world is smaller and they can focus their hatred on us.

Lets all blame Bush for problems that have existed for hundreds of years.

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by pghquest

Then explain to me why the attacks against the the USS Cold and the first WTC attack happened during CLINTON.

The hatred these people have had goes back hundreds of years. Only difference between now and then, the world is smaller and they can focus their hatred on us.

Lets all blame Bush for problems that have existed for hundreds of years.

That "hate us for hundreds of years" bunk is just garbage made up by the Christofascists and Israel-firsters for their End Times war fantasy. We were pretty tight with OBL and rest after helping them kick the Soviets out of Afcrapistan.

And we have been buddies with the Saudis since the 1920s when US missionary doctors (Real Christians) set up hospitials for them. The Saud family was treated in those hospitals, and thought well of US since.

Here is real list of OBL's demands from the early '90s was before any of the terror stuff started --

1. Get US troops out of Saudi (home of Mecca and Medina) -- we had left US Forces in place following the first Gulf War.
2. Stop harming Muslim children in Iraq with the embargo.
3. Stop shipping weapons and money to Israel to harm Muslims and chlidren.
4. Stop trying to force Western culture into their communities.

All pretty reasonable stuff, if you look at how we appear while standing in their sandals. Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2 all blew them off.

Both the Clinton(s) and Bushes have been self-serving dill-holes who have totally failed to take care of what were simple problems.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by Philip T

1. Get US troops out of Saudi (home of Mecca and Medina) -- we had left US Forces in place following the first Gulf War.
2. Stop harming Muslim children in Iraq with the embargo.
3. Stop shipping weapons and money to Israel to harm Muslims and chlidren.
4. Stop trying to force Western culture into their communities.

1) And since when did one country or group of individuals gain control over DEMANDING that we remove troops out of a country that welcomed our troops into being there? Why do you feel its ok for them to DEMAND that we remove all forces in place following the first Gulf War? Of course they wanted us out, so they could attack again.. dah!!
2) And since when did ANYONE have the right to demand how we control OUR country? We can issue trade embargos all day long on any country WE wish to..
3) Again, since when did another country or group have the right to DEMAND that we not do business with a 3rd party.. We do not bend over because someone threatened us. Perhapse they should have asked for a seat at the table instead of blowing up those that sat at it.
4) How do we FORCE western cultur onto anyones communities? EXPLAIN THIS.. PLEASE.. Others choose to emulate our culture because they wish to. Otherwise when we opened up franchises in their countries they would flop and not succeed.

[KerrTown]

Stupid Tax Cuts and those tax cuts weren't much of a benefit of the middle-class. Now our currency is devalued thanks to the cut-and-borrow fear-and-war mongering Republicans.

We barely have enough money to maintain infrastructure. Think of the bridge collapse. How are we going to raise money for road improvements? Bonds and more of them--that's borrowed money that only benefits their investor ilk. How about those road upgrades from full-access to limited-access highways? That's already "solved"--more toll roads and sell the franchises to outside (sometimes foreign) corporations. Stopping in the middle of the road is the wave of the future.

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by pghquest

1) And since when did one country or group of individuals gain control over DEMANDING that we remove troops out of a country that welcomed our troops into being there? Why do you feel its ok for them to DEMAND that we remove all forces in place following the first Gulf War? Of course they wanted us out, so they could attack again.. dah!!
2) And since when did ANYONE have the right to demand how we control OUR country? We can issue trade embargos all day long on any country WE wish to..
3) Again, since when did another country or group have the right to DEMAND that we not do business with a 3rd party.. We do not bend over because someone threatened us. Perhapse they should have asked for a seat at the table instead of blowing up those that sat at it.
4) How do we FORCE western cultur onto anyones communities? EXPLAIN THIS.. PLEASE.. Others choose to emulate our culture because they wish to. Otherwise when we opened up franchises in their countries they would flop and not succeed.

pghquest! Excellent job of displaying both the Bushes' and Clinton(s?) response -- and why it fails. That is sort of the point of being a bonehead on either side. As soon as one side picks the "you can't tell me," routine -- that side loses.

As far as your point 1 -- let me tighten you up a bit on the players -- when the pronouns (they) get sloppy it confuses the games.

OBL had no desire to attack the US after the victory over Soviets in Aficrapistan we were considered good friends. The first Gulf War was against Saddam not OBL. Saddam and OBL were not allies. Saddam was secular, OBL was very religion based. OBL had no direct action in at all in the first Gulf War.

Everyone knew the US forces were on shakey ground just being in Saudi even during the Gulf War. Our troops had great cultural resistrictions just being there, and were subject to the religious police. But the US has a hard time leaving a lot of places when it should. In that case it was because our top dogs really, really, really wanted an airbase there, and would not leave after the war was over

But that all turned out pointless because after 9-11 we were pretty much directed out of Saudi because US just being there is a lightning rod. There was no gain for US as far as containing Saddam by staying in Saudi, as we already had a forward operating base with Kuwait right next to Saddam.

2. The trade embargoes against Iraq were not just stupid pointless ones like what we have with Cuba. It was blocking most trade (including medicines for children) and the US knew it. If you think it is smart policy to harm other peoples' kids I sort of pity you. That will get you killed in much of the world and even in my neighborhood. It did not work out well or in our interest.

3. OBL's list was a request to start. When we blew them off, it became demands. When we blew that off, they started blowing things up. Remind you of any psycho-nut US President we have now? OBL would have been very easy to have deal with respectfully at the start (1991) and avoid the fight. That yields an easy victory with no loss. But I do not think any Amercans know or understand Sun Tzu, anymore.

4. OK, I believe you are probably so in the Western mind, you really do not get this. Different people may not share (y)our value systems. Even with just troops sneaking porn and alcohol in is a violaton of their laws and culture. During Desert Nonsense, we even had floating off-shore ***** hotels. Even our "good" troops sneak Bibles in -- again a cultural violation. And that is just a simple sample at a troop level. On the top government level, we have whole agencies attempting to shift (and from their view corrupt) their culture.

What we call marketing is considered very offensive. You/we can choose to blow that off, but as in the chain shown in point #3 -- that winds up with the offender (us) being blown away. We can be smarter than this. But like you are showing with the Bush/Clinton/Bush roles -- maybe we cannot.

It is really really simple to get along with these guys. Just be respectful, leave them alone, and do not mess with them. They would consider US friends for life. Why are we so incapable of that?

[Disgusted]

Originally Posted by pghquest

1) And since when did one country or group of individuals gain control over DEMANDING that we remove troops out of a country that welcomed our troops into being there? Why do you feel its ok for them to DEMAND that we remove all forces in place following the first Gulf War? Of course they wanted us out, so they could attack again.. dah!!
2) And since when did ANYONE have the right to demand how we control OUR country? We can issue trade embargos all day long on any country WE wish to..
3) Again, since when did another country or group have the right to DEMAND that we not do business with a 3rd party.. We do not bend over because someone threatened us. Perhapse they should have asked for a seat at the table instead of blowing up those that sat at it.
4) How do we FORCE western cultur onto anyones communities? EXPLAIN THIS.. PLEASE.. Others choose to emulate our culture because they wish to. Otherwise when we opened up franchises in their countries they would flop and not succeed.

You talk alot about we but I doubt your government gives a hoot about you, your needs and/or expectations. Nor mine. They certainly don't even think of you and me as we.

We don't issue trade embargos, we don't control our country, we don't force our culture onto others. Our Glorious Leader does all that for us.

We just provide the muscle and trigger-fingers and we fill the body-bags. We get our dead bodies flown in under the cover of night so that no news agency starts to tally so many bodies. We do the double and triple tours of service. We get the subsequent divorces when our spouses get fed-up with not seeing us for months at a time. If ever again. We get our legs blown off so Fat Cheney & Corp can smoke nice imported Cuban cigars while we CANNOT because Cuban cigars are illegal for us to import or possess.

Besides, have you ever tried to hold a Cuban cigar with a prosthetic arm?> Messy.

[roseba]

Originally Posted by pghquest

Then explain to me why the attacks against the the USS Cold and the first WTC attack happened during CLINTON.

The first attack on the WTC, happened exactly 37 days after Clinton took office.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that he was some how responsible for that.

The attack on the USS Cole was investigated. The results of the investigation, did not place blame on the party that was responsible until AFTER Bush took office. Yet, he chose to do nothing about it.

Lets all blame Bush for problems that have existed for hundreds of years.

Let's blame Bush for what he is responsible for, which is a whole lot.

[Nomander]

I read that and I pretty much got one thing from it.

"Hate Bush"

Funny how nothing is even mentioned about socialistic and communistic principals and how they caused an economic strain on the system.

Apparently, we are supposed to conclude that "Bush is Evil", "Bush and his administration are imperialistic dogs!", "Capitalism is Evil", and "Individual success is selfish, greedy, and evil".

That about sum it up comrade... opps I mean Disgusted?

[roseba]

Originally Posted by Nomander

I read that and I pretty much got one thing from it.

"Hate Bush"

Bush is a fine example of someone who doesn't work hard, is not particularly good at doing things, and still managed to suceed because of Daddy's money.

Somehow, that doesn't remind me of what we were taught in school were supposed to be American values.

Nomander, how come you are the king of the strawman argument? It's better to discredit the comment as mere bias than give an explanation.

Originally Posted by Nomander

Apparently, we are supposed to conclude that "Bush is Evil", "Bush and his administration are imperialistic dogs!", "Capitalism is Evil", and "Individual success is selfish, greedy, and evil".

But wait a minute? Don't you advocate personal responsibility? Yes. You want people to live up to your values, and do the right thing, and take responsibility for their actions.

Well then based on your own personal philosophy (an admirable one focusing on merit) then shouldn't Bush be held accountable for his lack of personal fortitude in doing things right.

Never mind that daddy had money and connections to clean up his mess. If every person is supposed to be held accountable for their actions (and their past) then money and connections should be besides the point.

He should have gotten off his lazy butt and worked like the rest of us. And stopped boozing. Maybe then he would not have bankrupt everything he touched. Where's the personal responsibility?