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Old 03-27-2013, 08:41 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
This isn't true...the job vacancy rate skyrocketed when UI was extended to 99 weeks in 2009.
Where are you getting this "Job Vacancy rate" ?

If it is here:

http://www.bls.gov/jlt/

then it is bullsh*t, because a survey of job listings is not an adequate measure of actual job openings

Civilian labor force participation rate
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000


http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12300000
Employment-population ratio

Last edited by le roi; 03-27-2013 at 08:52 AM..
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:41 AM
 
19,636 posts, read 12,226,539 times
Reputation: 26430
So then you aren't middle class? Anyone? Bueller?

I see middle class as far as the eye can see. People with normal homes and normal jobs and normal cars and normal lives. They don't have a helicopter like the rich guys the next town over but so what. We're middle class, lots and lots of us.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:42 AM
 
4,412 posts, read 3,959,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
But it deserves repeating. The bottom 90% of Americans have had flat salaries for 40 years! The rich? Their wealth continues to explode and many have the nerve to shelter money overseas.

And protecting the wealthy is priority #1 for the GOP. How stupid does that make the rest of Repubs?
Based on the President's record on financial reform and his rather modest tax proposals I'd say that Democrats have also made protecting the rich a pretty high priority. The Democrats at least feign concern for the middle.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:51 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,205,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
But it deserves repeating. The bottom 90% of Americans have had flat salaries for 40 years! The rich? Their wealth continues to explode and many have the nerve to shelter money overseas.

And protecting the wealthy is priority #1 for the GOP. How stupid does that make the rest of Repubs?
Income has hardly been flat...

Consumer spending in the middle class on food has decreased from 32% of income to 15% from 1950 to today. Spending on housing has nearly doubled in that same time period (22% to 43%), but the square footage of the average middle class home rose from 900 sqft to 2,400 sqft from 1950 to today. Spending on clothing and personal care is 1/4 today as it was in 1950 as a percentage of income. Spending on entertainment has tripled among the middle class from 1950 to today as a % of take home income.

In short? The middle class is living a more entertainment focused lifestyle in bigger houses while spending less than ever on essentials. How exactly have salaries been 'flat'? If the middle class stopped living lives that are extravagant compared to any other point in time, they would be doing more than OK.

I used BLS data using CPI indices for the numbers.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:54 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,205,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Where are you getting this "Job Vacancy rate" ?

If it is here:

Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey Home Page

then it is bullsh*t, because a survey of job listings is not an adequate measure of actual job openings

Civilian labor force participation rate
Bureau of Labor Statistics Data
You are about a quarter of the way there in terms of the math needed. You need to take the number of unfilled jobs and apply that as a percentage to the labor force participation rate.

Also, use the net rate, not just civilian participation.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Here
11,578 posts, read 13,948,459 times
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If you're so concerned, why in the hell are you so gung ho on granting amnesty to 25 million "undocumented" (chuckle) immigrants.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,931,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
So then you aren't middle class? Anyone? Bueller?

I see middle class as far as the eye can see. People with normal homes and normal jobs and normal cars and normal lives. They don't have a helicopter like the rich guys the next town over but so what. We're middle class, lots and lots of us.
You can't really be that naive... as far as your eye can see... do you really need me to tell you its a much bigger country than what your limited perspective can take in? There are formerly middle class Americans eating from dumpsters, living without shelter, going without medical or dental care... killing themselves... because they can no longer make any kind of living, forget about a middle class one. No McDonald's is going to hire a laid off Software Engineer. Former white collar professionals are dying in high risk blue collar trades for which they do not have the requisite physical or emotional rigor. We aren't talking about helicopters, we are talking about not even having the money to take mass transit.

H
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:59 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
You are about a quarter of the way there in terms of the math needed. You need to take the number of unfilled jobs and apply that as a percentage to the labor force participation rate.
Like I said, there is no accurate measure of unfilled jobs.

Quote:
Also, use the net rate, not just civilian participation.
Net remaining, after subtracting what?
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:00 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Income has hardly been flat...

Consumer spending in the middle class on food has decreased from 32% of income to 15% from 1950 to today. Spending on housing has nearly doubled in that same time period (22% to 43%), but the square footage of the average middle class home rose from 900 sqft to 2,400 sqft from 1950 to today. Spending on clothing and personal care is 1/4 today as it was in 1950 as a percentage of income. Spending on entertainment has tripled among the middle class from 1950 to today as a % of take home income.

In short? The middle class is living a more entertainment focused lifestyle in bigger houses while spending less than ever on essentials. How exactly have salaries been 'flat'? If the middle class stopped living lives that are extravagant compared to any other point in time, they would be doing more than OK.

I used BLS data using CPI indices for the numbers.
... knowing good and well that CPI doesn't accurately capture the increases in energy or rents.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:01 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,205,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Like I said, there is no accurate measure of unfilled jobs.
...yes there is...read about at at the BLS website

Quote:
Net remaining, after subtracting what?
You need to add public sector jobs. Your data was only the private markets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
... knowing good and well that CPI doesn't accurately capture the increases in energy or rents.
Which is why I used CPI adjusted indices instead of the raw numbers.

It is a very proven fact that the middle class today spend more on entertainment and less on 'essentials' than in any other point in time. Are you really arguing to the contrary?
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