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Old 03-27-2013, 05:20 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,287 posts, read 51,904,009 times
Reputation: 23671

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary20852 View Post
So you don't care if behaviors are sinful? The only thing that matters is that you enjoy engaging in those activities?
Sin is a religious concept, and morality (even among the non-religious) is highly subjective.

I don't see having consensual relations with another adult as "sinful," in fact I think it's wonderful if they find love and companionship. And yes, it does only matter if they are happy, as long as nobody else is being directly harmed in the process. So until you can prove their relationship is negatively affecting anyone else, I will assume you're just a busybody.

Quote:
I'm sure there are many cannibals, rapists, adulterers, child predators and murderers who share the same viewpoint. After all, if they didn't enjoy those activities, they wouldn't engage in them right?
And now I'm done with you... anyone who can't see the difference between victimizing somebody (particularly a child), and consenting adults having consensual relations, is not worth debating. Clearly you have some issues, and I would also question your own moral compass if you think these are even remotely comparable. Scary stuff.

Last edited by gizmo980; 03-27-2013 at 05:30 PM..

 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:22 PM
 
353 posts, read 395,163 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
You guys really need to stop using the term "redefining," because that is inaccurate... they are merely looking to ADD a definition, not to REdefine what is already there. For example, the word "sweet" at one time only meant sugary - now it also means cool/nice, so does it no longer mean sugary?
The problem with your argument is, words have meaning. The word "marriage" and all that is tied to it is very important to people who value it. It's not a simple matter of just reassigning a new category.

Quote:
But again I have to ask, WHO FLIPPIN' CARES??!! It's a word people, get over it!!! Sorry to yell, but I find this whole attitude just flabbergasting. Don't want to marry a gay person, then don't. Easy as that.
Also, it's not just about the word, it's about the acceptance of homosexuality. Those who do not agree with homosexuality do not wish to see it promoted or endorsed on any level.

Perhaps you don't care, but please respect the fact that I do care. This has nothing to do with hate, it's about wanting the best for families and society at large.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,168 posts, read 2,061,506 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
Sin is a religious concept,
It's a religious word, but you can understand it as simply as a behavior that is 'wrong.' That's a secular interpretation
 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,287 posts, read 51,904,009 times
Reputation: 23671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary20852 View Post
The point was, overall marriage declined in the Netherlands. I find it interesting that you'd like to discount the second article which clearly points out that gay marriage is related to the overall drop in marriage rates in the Netherlands.

Would you be so quick to discount liberal sources? I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't; you'd gladly accept whatever was written by MSNBC, CNN, the Washington Post and the New York Times.
Don't tell me what I would or wouldn't do, since you clearly don't know me very well... I am a Libertarian (not to mention a professional reference librarian), and would give you the for producing obviously liberal sources too. You know what they say about ASSuming, right?

Try finding those same conclusions on a neutral (not liberal OR conservative-leaning) source. I dare you. If you can find that, I will award you a virtual cookie - and if you cannot, that should tell anyone with half a brain that it's biased/non-factual nonsense.

Quote:
I happen to care about families. It's not simply about the individual, in case you didn't know.
I care about families too... I care about the approximately 40,000 children who live with same sex parents, and are not protected under the law. I care about my gay family members not being treated equally, and not being allowed to marry who they love. I also care about the other family members of gay individuals, and how they are affected by this issue every day. Don't you care about them, or is your concern discriminatory too?

Last edited by gizmo980; 03-27-2013 at 05:53 PM..
 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:29 PM
 
353 posts, read 395,163 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post


And now I'm done with you... anyone who can't see the difference between victimizing somebody (particularly a child), and consenting adults having consensual relations, is not worth debating. Clearly you have some issues, and I would also question your own moral compass if you think these are even remotely comparable. Scary stuff.
The point is, many people enjoy doing all sorts of things. Society however, shouldn't just condone activities just because the individual enjoys them. We should attempt to implement morality and teach children the difference between right and wrong.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:30 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,287 posts, read 51,904,009 times
Reputation: 23671
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieApocExtraordinaire View Post
It's a religious word, but you can understand it as simply as a behavior that is 'wrong.' That's a secular interpretation
No, sin is very clearly a religious concept - and remember, I am religious (semi) myself.

What you're talking about is morality or right vs wrong, and those are incredibly subjective concepts. Even sin is subjective, since my religion probably has different sins than other religions, etc.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:31 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,287 posts, read 51,904,009 times
Reputation: 23671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary20852 View Post
The problem with your argument is, words have meaning. The word "marriage" and all that is tied to it is very important to people who value it. It's not a simple matter of just reassigning a new category.



Also, it's not just about the word, it's about the acceptance of homosexuality. Those who do not agree with homosexuality do not wish to see it promoted or endorsed on any level.

Perhaps you don't care, but please respect the fact that I do care. This has nothing to do with hate, it's about wanting the best for families and society at large.
There are many things I don't like in this world, and do not like seeing "promoted" in our society - but that is MY problem alone, and I'm not about to ask others to suffer for it.

Sounds like you have a very selfish and narrow view on life.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:32 PM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,168 posts, read 2,061,506 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
No, sin is very clearly a religious concept - and remember, I am religious (semi) myself.

What you're talking about is morality or right vs wrong, and those are incredibly subjective concepts. Even sin is subjective, since my religion probably has different sins than other religions, etc.
Sin is just a latin derived word meaning to miss. Basically, you deviated from the path you should be on. Because Christianity became entrenched in Romanism, a lot of what you think are Christian concepts are far more general. Yes, its roots in the English language are religious but if you're not a Christian or even religious you can (slightly) modify it to meaning 'immoral.'
 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,287 posts, read 51,904,009 times
Reputation: 23671
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieApocExtraordinaire View Post
Sin is just a latin derived word meaning to miss. Basically, you deviated from the path you should be on. Because Christianity became entrenched in Romanism, a lot of what you think are Christian concepts are far more general. Yes, its roots in the English language are religious but if you're not a Christian or even religious you can (slightly) modify it to meaning 'immoral.'
Fair enough... either way, it is not a legal term and thus has no bearing on US laws.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:42 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,287 posts, read 51,904,009 times
Reputation: 23671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary20852 View Post
The point is, many people enjoy doing all sorts of things. Society however, shouldn't just condone activities just because the individual enjoys them. We should attempt to implement morality and teach children the difference between right and wrong.
I'll teach my children the difference between right & wrong, but my "right vs wrong" is probably much different from yours. That is why we can't have society or government determining such things, outside of the obvious where somebody is being harmed (murder, rape, etc). I think it's wrong to judge people for being gay, and to deny them the right to marry - and my parents feel the same, which is why they raised all of us to be open-minded and supportive of homosexual individuals. Clearly your parents had different ideas, and taught you those.

I doubt you'd want my family's morals imposed on yours, any more than I'd want the reverse. As I said above, you have an extremely selfish view on life and society.
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