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You should know that anecdotal evidence is not evidence.
I’ve never posted anecdotal evidence.
It’s disgusting that you would have to stoop as low as to characterize the Canadian Medical Association, the Canadian Supreme Court, the US Government, the British Government, the German Government and the Swedish Government as “anecdotal evidence.”
That just shows how weak you and your position really are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly
Plus, you ignore the fact that 45,000 Americans die each year due to lack of insurance.
I don’t ignore it.
But unlike you, I understand it is a mere 0.014% of the population.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly
More people die in this country due to lack of insurance than due to kidney disease.
Not relevant, and the credibility of PNHP is about ZERO, since they don’t know how to do anything but lie.
The study was debunked and refuted for its many flaws, including the fact that you cannot prove those people would have sought medical treatment even if they had health plan coverage, and, why, yes, many people with health care coverage die, because they never seek treatment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly
Not only do you resort to anecdotal evidence, but you make the same mistake as a prior poster.
The only sources I have ever cited in any debate about health care have been:
British Ministry of Health
Ministry of Health, Federal Republic of Germany
Canadian Parliament
Canadian Supreme Court
US Centers for Disease Control
US Department of Health & Human Services
US Department of Veterans Affairs
US Census Bureau
US Department of Labor
US Treasury Department
US General Accounting Office
US Congressional Research Service
US Congressional Budget Office
US Social Security Administration
US Center for Medicare/Medicaid Services
US Medicare Trustees
European Commission of the European Union
World Health Organization European Observatory on Health Care Issues
Frasier Institute
The Commonwealth Fund
American Society of Actuaries
Dartmouth Medical School
Ministry of Health, Welfare & Sport, the Netherlands
US National Institute of Health
Swedish Ministry of Health
US Congress
Please elaborate in detail how peer-reviewed government publications and non-governmental organizations and universities constitutes “anecdotal evidence.” Here’s the definition of “anecdotal evidence” since you are either very confused, or practicing your best Göbbels imitation:
"Anecdotal evidence refers to an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote. It is the opposite of scientific evidence, and not based on facts."
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly
Simply using waiting times as a metric of quality HC is absurd.
Wrong.
It speaks to the heart of the matter directly.
Like it or not, the Laws of Economics govern health care, and no one living or dead or who ever will live has the power to alter the Laws of Economics
It matters not whether health care resources are infinite or finite, since all health care resources are limited.
The Laws of Economics via the Law of Supply & Demand rules the distribution of health care resources.
Waiting lists are proof that government interference has resulted in Demand exceeding Supply.
The Demand for Healthcare can only be offset by
1] reducing Demand for Healthcare; or
2] increasing the Supply of Healthcare
Increasing the Supply of Healthcare increases the cost of Healthcare
Ergo…..for the not-too-bright…..health care in Canada is not cheaper, rather the government merely limits the amount of money that can be spent, resulting in waiting lists, resulting in death and or injuries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly
While Americans may wait less for a variety of health services compared to their Northern counterparts, they still lag behind other countries in waiting times.
And your evidence is what?
Your lack of win is unimpressive and your credibility is worthless on City-Data. You’ll need to provide from a reputable source – and, no, the New York Times doesn’t count.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly
Again, people like to cherrypick data and simply use Canada.
Sweden is in Canada?
Britain is in Canada?
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly
Your own data does not support your claim. Expenditure of selected health care functions by providers of health care, per inhabitant. Eurostat - Data Explorer
Then show us the data…..you couldn't even format the chart properly...
State................2009..............2010
Belgium.........3,362.48(p).....3,422.42(p)
Denmark.........4,643.97....... 4,720.92
Germany.........3,399.23........3,513.13
Spain........... 2,197.68........2,186.64
France ..........3,413.71(p)....3,468.60(p)
Luxembourg... 5,438.46.........:No Data
Netherlands....4,109.85.........4,246.56
Austria .........3,677.79.........3,747.23
Portugal.........1,714.01.........1,746.35(p)
Romania...........310.39.........:No Data
Slovakia.........1,060.60.........1,095.45
Sweden.........3,126.16.........3,558.17
Norway.........5,468.68.........6,069.83(p)
Switzerland....5,215.33.........5,786.20
Canada.........3,243.84.........:No Data
US...............5,702.44.........:No Data
South Korea.....837.74.........:No Data
Uh, the data does support my claim.
Must be pretty embarrassing not to know that
6,069 > 5,702
5,786 > 5,702.
Anyone figure it out yet?
Affluence creates Demand for Healthcare driving health care costs up.
Technology drives up the cost of health care.
Affluence and the Demand for Health Care Technology causes costs to rise even faster.
Anyone want to explain why health care is, um, you know, cheaper in Romania and South Korea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly
The survey data showed that average US prices were once again the highest of those in the countries surveyed for nearly all of the common services and procedures reviewed.
Price is a function of Supply & Demand.
Interference in the natural processes results in either Supply shortage, driving up price, or increased Demand, driving up price….or both. More to the point, the Cost-of-Living varies greatly from country to country ---I don’t mean to talk over your head --- but the data I presented proves that.
If Canada was paying the TRUE COST of health care, then there would be no waiting lists for anything.
Like I said before. Socialized/single payer whatever you want. Yes I know there are subtle differences.
Anyways, the American public wants their cake and eat it also. They want their private system but also want it affordable.
They just can't have it both ways. They still want to be able to sue their doctor/device makers/drug manufactures. This just can't happen unless there is significant tort reform. In the USA, it will be a cold day in h*ll before the lawyers agree to it.
The closest health system we have in the US to "universal health care" is our VA system. It's still costly. Not cheap. Lawyers hate it cause it's nearly impossible to sue. Vets are usually satisfied because of the cost. Although we had quite a few vets jump to the private system (when their spouses have private insurance) because they find our private system much more efficient than the VA system.
How much outlay from insurance companies goes towards lawsuits? How many states have imposed tort reform, and how successful has it been?
It’s disgusting that you would have to stoop as low as to characterize the Canadian Medical Association, the Canadian Supreme Court, the US Government, the British Government, the German Government and the Swedish Government as “anecdotal evidence.”
That just shows how weak you and your position really are.
Common Anomaly's accusations that you use only "ancedotal evidence" are ancedotal evidence !
You should know that anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Plus, you ignore the fact that 45,000 Americans die each year due to lack of insurance. More people die in this country due to lack of insurance than due to kidney disease.
fascist liberal lies
so you were so smart, you couldnt even figure out that liberal fib is a lie
there is ZERO (zip, nada) PROOF that those people died because of lack of insurance
* and yet 2.5 million died WITH INSURANCE
* over 180,000 seniors (those over 65) die each year....while ON medicare(A GOVERNMENT INSURANCE
* 75k died becuase of alcohol
* in 2010 there were 33,000 traffic deaths (lowest level ever recorded)
* 146k people in the USA die each year from perscribed medication( hmmm 15,000 die each year from illegal drugs...but 146,000 die from PROPERLY perscribed drugs) ((((In an average year, 1.6 million people are hospitalized due to the side effects of prescribed drugs))))
* Approximately 180,000 people die each year partly as a result of doctor- caused injury
and yet you believe that 45k died from LACK of INSURANCE
having insurance only means that some entity is paying your bill
I can go to the doctor (any doctor) and get preventive care, without insurance
actually GOING TO THE doctor gets you preventive care
so you were so smart, you couldnt even figure out that liberal fib is a lie
there is ZERO (zip, nada) PROOF that those people died because of lack of insurance
* and yet 2.5 million died WITH INSURANCE
* over 180,000 seniors (those over 65) die each year....while ON medicare(A GOVERNMENT INSURANCE
* 75k died becuase of alcohol
* in 2010 there were 33,000 traffic deaths (lowest level ever recorded)
* 146k people in the USA die each year from perscribed medication( hmmm 15,000 die each year from illegal drugs...but 146,000 die from PROPERLY perscribed drugs) ((((In an average year, 1.6 million people are hospitalized due to the side effects of prescribed drugs))))
* Approximately 180,000 people die each year partly as a result of doctor- caused injury
and yet you believe that 45k died from LACK of INSURANCE
having insurance only means that some entity is paying your bill
I can go to the doctor (any doctor) and get preventive care, without insurance
actually GOING TO THE doctor gets you preventive care
insurance is not care, never has been
Fascist liberal lies??? haha Good one though.
No, dude. Fascists are the right wing. The similarities, for example, between The Third Reich and Republican ideology is spot on:
Both HATE Communists
Both HATE unions
Both believe censorship is necessary in order to avoid "enemies of the state"
Both employ propaganda par excellence and spend a good amount of money on it
Both believe the Motherland is best, and all other countries are enemies or potential enemies which must be quelled
Both hate the disabled and blame them for their own suffering
Both hate the poor and blame them for their own suffering
Both love war and declaring war
Both love the military
Both adore the death penalty
Both hate gays
Both are misogynist
Both work very well with corporations! (Corporations do very well when they're in power!)
Both reject religions which are non-Christian
Both are racist
Both are jingoists (falsely patriotic) and love military parades, flag lapel pins, weeping about the Motherland
Both believe in building many, many, many prisons
Both believe in employing prisoners to do free or nearly-free work for corporations
The liberal try to argue how many died for lack of health insurance.
Yet, they won't answer how many died even though they HAD INSURANCE.
Why is that?
Because it doesn't fit the narrative they want to put out there. Just like pointing out the costs of this program were way understated and that the costs to the public are going to roll way,way downhill on the economic ladder,(you know, the stuff that's flushed down the toilet) not just stay at the top of the hill like we've been told.
No, dude. Fascists are the right wing. The similarities, for example, between The Third Reich and Republican ideology is spot on:
Both HATE Communists
Both HATE unions
Both believe censorship is necessary in order to avoid "enemies of the state"
Both employ propaganda par excellence and spend a good amount of money on it
Both hate the poor and blame them for their own suffering
Both work very well with corporations! (Corporations do very well when they're in power!)
wow talk about delusional
fascists are right wing, like democrats are right wing
guess democrats ARE TO THE RIGHT of liberals
right/left wing is a way of describing things...ie in one hand this, on the other hand that
socialism...big government...anti capitolist
fascism... big government...anti capitolist
you do understand that socialism, fascism, communism, marxism, liberalism...all came from the progressive movement of the 1880's
american liberals are like a hibreed of socialism, marxism and fascism
american liberals (such as obama) are very far left (unlike true democrats which are moderate) he is the epitome of socialist/fascist
1.....""Fascism is a system in which the government leaves nominal ownership of the means of production in the hands of private individuals but exercises control by means of regulatory legislation and reaps most of the profit by means of heavy taxation. In effect, fascism is simply a more subtle form of government ownership than is socialism."" Mussolini
.
.
.
2. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."--- Norman Thomas, former U.S. Socialist Presidential Candidate
.
.
.
3. "A Marxist(socialist/fascist) begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order , and finally the last stage -- the political paradise of communism." Saul alinski
.
.
.
4. Zbigniew Brzezinski advisor to carter,bush1, clinton, cheney and obama.....""This is a form of Socialism known as fascism, and it will be the type of world government the power elite plans ultimately to bring about and control. In this government, the power elite will control politicians who will become government leaders who will promulgate laws, rules and regulations favorable to certain transnational corporations"""
.
.
.
.
.all you have to do is connect the dots folks..its all there
the comparisions are valid..the LEFT and the progressive liberals are an almost EXACT match of ... communism, fascism, socialism, naziism..all stem from marxism..and the progressive movement of the 1880's...which is exactly what todays american 'liberals' are
Quote:
"As things stand today, the unions in my opinion cannot be dispensed with. On the contrary, they are among the most important institutions of the nation's economic life. Their significance lies not only in the social and political field, but even more in the general field of national politics. A people whose broad masses, through a sound trade-union movement, obtain the satisfaction of their living requirements and at the same time an education, will be tremendously strengthened in its power of resistance in the struggle for existence".
sounds like something pelosi,or reid would say...yet it was hitler who said it(chap 12 of mein kampf)
Quote:
same with mussolini....pro-union...He attempted to centralize control of industry by declaring a "Corporate State" which divided all Italian industry up into 22 "corporations". In these corporations both workers and managers were supposed to co-operate to run industry together -- but under Fascist guidance, of course. The Corporate State was supposed to ensure social justice and give the workers substantial control of industry.
"""Therefore I desire that this assembly shall accept the revindication of national trades unionism""" mussolinni ..pro-union
F.D. Roosevelt, found in Mussolini's policies part of his inspiration for the semi-socialist "New Deal" and referred to Mussolini in 1933 as "that admirable Italian gentleman". Mussolini was plausible to an amazingly wide range of people -- not the least to the people of Italy.
In a laudatory review of Roosevelt's 1933 book Looking Forward, Mussolini wrote, "Reminiscent of Fascism is the principle that the state no longer leaves the economy to its own devices.… Without question, the mood accompanying this sea change resembles that of Fascism
===================
"The Russian newspapers during the last election (1932) published the photograph of Franklin D. Roosevelt over the caption 'the first communistic President of the United States'." -- Senator Thomas D. Schall
FDR gave a speech in Troy, NY, 3 March 1912, in which he laid out his philosophy - he placed the "liberty of the community" over "the liberty of the individual."
FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
=========================
and hitler took the guns away from ALL people..only governemt people had the ability to have a weapon
lenin also said this...."A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the people"
"Gun registration is not enough. Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." Janet Reno
"This year will go down in history. For the first time,
a civilised nation has full gun registration!
Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future!" Adolf Hitler
"National Socialism will use its own revolution for establishing a new world order." ...hitler
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees." bill clinton
the history is there, just because you dont like that people like mussilini and hitler tarnished the name of progressives, with Eugenics, population control, economic fascism, etc.... doesnt mean it didnt happen....
fascists are right wing, like democrats are right wing
guess democrats ARE TO THE RIGHT of liberals
right/left wing is a way of describing things...ie in one hand this, on the other hand that
socialism...big government...anti capitolist
fascism... big government...anti capitolist
you do understand that socialism, fascism, communism, marxism, liberalism...all came from the progressive movement of the 1880's
american liberals are like a hibreed of socialism, marxism and fascism
american liberals (such as obama) are very far left (unlike true democrats which are moderate) he is the epitome of socialist/fascist
1.....""Fascism is a system in which the government leaves nominal ownership of the means of production in the hands of private individuals but exercises control by means of regulatory legislation and reaps most of the profit by means of heavy taxation. In effect, fascism is simply a more subtle form of government ownership than is socialism."" Mussolini
.
.
.
2. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."--- Norman Thomas, former U.S. Socialist Presidential Candidate
.
.
.
3. "A Marxist(socialist/fascist) begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order , and finally the last stage -- the political paradise of communism." Saul alinski
.
.
.
4. Zbigniew Brzezinski advisor to carter,bush1, clinton, cheney and obama.....""This is a form of Socialism known as fascism, and it will be the type of world government the power elite plans ultimately to bring about and control. In this government, the power elite will control politicians who will become government leaders who will promulgate laws, rules and regulations favorable to certain transnational corporations"""
.
.
.
.
.all you have to do is connect the dots folks..its all there
the comparisions are valid..the LEFT and the progressive liberals are an almost EXACT match of ... communism, fascism, socialism, naziism..all stem from marxism..and the progressive movement of the 1880's...which is exactly what todays american 'liberals' are
sounds like something pelosi,or reid would say...yet it was hitler who said it(chap 12 of mein kampf)
F.D. Roosevelt, found in Mussolini's policies part of his inspiration for the semi-socialist "New Deal" and referred to Mussolini in 1933 as "that admirable Italian gentleman". Mussolini was plausible to an amazingly wide range of people -- not the least to the people of Italy.
In a laudatory review of Roosevelt's 1933 book Looking Forward, Mussolini wrote, "Reminiscent of Fascism is the principle that the state no longer leaves the economy to its own devices.… Without question, the mood accompanying this sea change resembles that of Fascism
===================
"The Russian newspapers during the last election (1932) published the photograph of Franklin D. Roosevelt over the caption 'the first communistic President of the United States'." -- Senator Thomas D. Schall
FDR gave a speech in Troy, NY, 3 March 1912, in which he laid out his philosophy - he placed the "liberty of the community" over "the liberty of the individual."
FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
=========================
and hitler took the guns away from ALL people..only governemt people had the ability to have a weapon
lenin also said this...."A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the people"
"Gun registration is not enough. Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." Janet Reno
"This year will go down in history. For the first time,
a civilised nation has full gun registration!
Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future!" Adolf Hitler
"National Socialism will use its own revolution for establishing a new world order." ...hitler
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees." bill clinton
the history is there, just because you dont like that people like mussilini and hitler tarnished the name of progressives, with Eugenics, population control, economic fascism, etc.... doesnt mean it didnt happen....
And this is why the Internet can also be dangerous - the ignorant can actually post on it lol This dude here read somewhere that the Nazis called themselves National Socialists, so he automatically thinks they are Socialists. Never mind picking up a history book, nah. Takes too long.
This is kinda like people who confuse the word irrespective and the non-existent word, "irregardless."
[quote=Saritaschihuahua;29039260]And this is why the Internet can also be dangerous - the ignorant can actually post on it lol This dude here read somewhere that the Nazis called themselves National Socialists, so he automatically thinks they are Socialists. Never mind picking up a history book, nah. Takes too long.
This is kinda like people who confuse the word irrespective and the non-existent word, "irregardless."[/quote]
I had an elderly English teacher in high school in 1961 who berated the assistant principal of the school in front of a hallway full of students for using that word while addressing a student he was trying to discipline.
That harangue was wonderful to behold with the climactic admonishment being "we're charged with teaching these pupils and you've just very graphically demonstrated you're not qualified".
Gad, I remember the titters in that hallway as though it were yesterday!
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