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People absolutely deserve a larger slice of the pie, if they can prove they deserve it.
With all due respect, you have the most hateful attitude of anyone on this thread. Your blind hatred for anyone conservative is the kind of blind hatred that most of us cannot relate to. Many liberals I know have very good points and deserve an enormous amount of respect.
Your inability to separate hated from your blind partisanship is exactly the anger fueled, hate filled attitude that is sinking this country. You should be ashamed.
This is not about me. I know this is what you'd rather discuss instead of disgusting conservative ideas that attack workers as lazy and blah, blah, blah.
conservatives hate. The conservative position is that workers shouldn't get more of the pie.
How does a worker prove they deserve more money? Do most workers know how much money their work cost versus the economic benefit it brings to the company? I'd say no.
Do most workers have any idea what their co-workers are making and their level of productivity, I'd say no.
Do most workers have any idea what managers make, the profits of the companies, the financial information of the company presented to them in how it relates to them. I'd say no.
Finally, if a worker had all the relevant information that shows based on their performance they objectively deserved more money, they'd still have to negotiate with an employer who has more information and the ultimate veto.
My solution to this problem I think is very simple.
Everyone's income within a company should be made available to every employee of that company.
This would force companies to explain to their workers the grotesque pay disparities between co-workers, and management.
I think employers who can't explain on an economic basis their pay structure should have to pay restitution to those workers whose incomes were artificially depressed.
The system that is in place now gives all the cards to the employer, they know all the facts and most workers don't even know the salary of their co-workers.
How can a person realistically know how much they should get paid?
And we'd all have more of the pie if workers today stuck together like they use to. Things like sick pay, vacation time they just weren't just given from the goodness of employers hearts, we demanded them. Workers literally got beat fighting for the things these people take for granted today.
If you look at Census Data you will find that things like vacation time, sick pay, health insurance, 40-hour work week, elimination of child labor all happened in non-union shops. Wages were also rising at much higher rates than anything any union has been able to get.
And decades before the unions and government "fixed" employers.
If you read Cloward and Piven you will see that labor unions only gained power when politicians and CEOs wanted them to. And it wasn't to help to average worker either.
How does a worker prove they deserve more money?
Go to the boss and tell them what you did to make the company money.
Do most workers know how much money their work cost versus the economic benefit it brings to the company? I'd say no.
I'd say yes.
Do most workers have any idea what their co-workers are making and their level of productivity, I'd say no.
I'd say yes. Co-workers know exactly what others make.
Do most workers have any idea what managers make, the profits of the companies, the financial information of the company presented to them in how it relates to them. I'd say no.
Again yes. But what the company makes or what a manager makes has zero effect on what an employee makes, nor should it.
Finally, if a worker had all the relevant information that shows based on their performance they objectively deserved more money, they'd still have to negotiate with an employer who has more information and the ultimate veto.
The employee has just as much veto power as the employer. Sometimes more.
My solution to this problem I think is very simple.
Everyone's income within a company should be made available to every employee of that company.
Yeah, it usually already is and it causes all kinds of problems. It's better for everyone if they don't know what others are making. Unless they have the exact same job.
This would force companies to explain to their workers the grotesque pay disparities between co-workers, and management.
There are reasons people get paid differently. It's because they do different jobs.
I think employers who can't explain on an economic basis their pay structure should have to pay restitution to those workers whose incomes were artificially depressed.
An employer cannot depress wages artificially. Laws of economics forbid it.
The system that is in place now gives all the cards to the employer, they know all the facts and most workers don't even know the salary of their co-workers.
Sounds like Karl Marx gibberish.
How can a person realistically know how much they should get paid?
That may be the dumbest question I ever heard. Have you ever had a job?
This is not about me. I know this is what you'd rather discuss instead of disgusting conservative ideas that attack workers as lazy and blah, blah, blah.
conservatives hate. The conservative position is that workers shouldn't get more of the pie.
How does a worker prove they deserve more money? Do most workers know how much money their work cost versus the economic benefit it brings to the company? I'd say no.
Do most workers have any idea what their co-workers are making and their level of productivity, I'd say no.
Do most workers have any idea what managers make, the profits of the companies, the financial information of the company presented to them in how it relates to them. I'd say no.
Finally, if a worker had all the relevant information that shows based on their performance they objectively deserved more money, they'd still have to negotiate with an employer who has more information and the ultimate veto.
My solution to this problem I think is very simple.
Everyone's income within a company should be made available to every employee of that company.
This would force companies to explain to their workers the grotesque pay disparities between co-workers, and management.
I think employers who can't explain on an economic basis their pay structure should have to pay restitution to those workers whose incomes were artificially depressed.
The system that is in place now gives all the cards to the employer, they know all the facts and most workers don't even know the salary of their co-workers.
How can a person realistically know how much they should get paid?
Being an employee doesn't give you the right to any financial information about others. Period. It's none of YOUR business what agreement my employer and I have regarding my pay.
Love liberals - it's all about "forcing" businesses. Do you even understand what freedom MEANS?
I'll give you a hint as to how you know how much you should get paid - it's the amount someone is willing to pay you to do the job you are hired to do.
As an employer, I believe greatly in rewarding hard work that serves to further company objectives. So much so that I pay right out of my own pocket as well as business bonuses.
As an employer, I have noticed that the hard worker to lazy mofo ratio is about 1:10.
You are not entitled to jack crap just for showing up, converting oxygen to carbon dioxide, and ranting in your entitled mentality.
It is amazing, that for all of their words, the conservative argument on this issue is that workers shouldn't get more of the pie.
This is their official position. Through all the justifications and word vomit, the conservative position is that workers shouldn't get more of the pie.
Amazing.
conservatives hate.
Well, I wouldn't go that far, nor would I say the fat cats have no value. But, the truth of it is, the American worker is undervalued and the CEO class far overvalued in the current arrangement. That is plain as a pig on a sofa. And if more of the profit goes to the employees, the economy and society will be healthier. The rich will still be rich, just not so obscenely so. Reaganomics was a huge boon to the top earners and our inequality is approaching Mexico.
It seems like the right wingers often get into "my ideology right or wrong" kind of thinking, where they defend the indefensible. Kind of sad to see a bunch of lapdogs yapping for their corporate masters, for a few table scraps and atta boys. Little do they know, dog is on the menu.
I am AMAZED that people simply overlook the HUGE gap in pay/benefits between upper management/CEO's of companies & the workers. The ones who are actually keeping that company chugging along. The wage increase of CEO's from back in the day to now is astonishing. Yet, people like you will never open your eyes to this, you will continue to blame the worker for it. Unreal.
I've owned several businesses in my lifetime, so my eyes "have been open" for many years. I've worked people in a variety of businesses and understand the work ethic of the present generation and its predecessors, so go peddle your idiocy to someone who doesn't understand the business model. I fully understand "GIVE" the workers a bigger slice of the pie,....just as I also understand your and Obama's redistribution of wealth rhetoric.
It's astonishing that you and your kind think people deserve "part of the pie" because they simply show up to work and collect a paycheck.
It's not for me to say if it's enough. It's for the market to say.
Were you there, side by side with the CEO while he built the business to something that is worth a lot? Did you see how hard he or she worked to make that sale happen?
I think a CEO of a business who uses his or her skills to run a company is worth FAR more than an actor who makes that kind of money. Funny, you never hear liberals go on and on about the bloated salaries of their commie actor idols.
The business was "built" in 1869.He made routine executive decisions.
Seems to me that we have been racing to the bottom for years. In the classic battle of labor and capital, labor has rolled over. Now we cheer about cutting the minimum wage, busting unions, fawning over the super wealthy,etc. But here is the thing. When workers earn a decent wage, they spend it. Much more of our money recirculates when workers are fairly paid, and the economy is healthier and more productive. Right now we are in a race for the bottom, where the workers relative wealth and health are stagnant or declining, job security is shattered, and we paper over that with low priced junk from Wal-Mart, Dollar Stores, and food stamps for the working poor.
Admittedly, paying labor more raises prices, but guess what? We are the most innovative country in the world. Why can't we appeal to the achievement drive of our employees. They want to do world class work, not produce cheap schlock. Why not ask them to do world class work, rather than work long hours for peanuts? The Germans do this, and they do it well. This will only come from the will of the people, and a respect for the drive and creativity of the workers.
When folks go from millionaires to billionaires, I think their achievement focus declines. They might have wanted to do something worthwhile at one point, but eventually it becomes ALL about aggregating wealth. That attitude is not what made America great. It is a pathology. A thirst for real innovation and achievement has always been more important than pure greed. Our workers can beat our capitalist overlords at that anytime, and when we invest in the worker, the country leads the world. The last century has shown this plainly. Tax cuts for the rich, in contrast, do almost nothing, except fund lobbyists and Super Pacs.
You're ignoring a natural law that is as difficult to break as the laws of physics.....supply and demand.
When labor is plentiful, demand decreases, so do wages.
The people on the left haven't yet figured out that allowing 10-15 million new people into the workforce isn't going to do anything but lower wages across the board. The leftie politicians know that they will be getting 80% of their votes, that's all they care about.
Now, who cares about the "working class"?
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