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Old 04-09-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: MS
4,396 posts, read 4,899,877 times
Reputation: 1559

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Have you seen the new revolver pistol, that shoots .45's and .410 shotgun shells?

How does that weapon, get around the unconstitutional law?
The barrel is rifled and therefore not a shotgun by the unconstitutional ATF's definition.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,792,358 times
Reputation: 9399
For a gun loving society you would be surprised that most people are not even aware of what rifling is.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:56 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,797,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
From the comments section of your own link:
"As a retired LEO and Range Master, I can attest to the effectiveness of bird shot at close range. I agree that bird shot within a dwelling is more than sufficient to take the fight out of any intruder, while reducing the chance of over penetration and ricochet. On most ocassions, High Base 7.5 bird shot, will get the job done within 20 yards."
Chokes and loads can be tweaked, but as a general rule, the pellets—and therefore the energy—of birdshot widens and disperses over a shorter distance than buckshot. So, if you prefer to use birdshot, proper patterning is absolutely essential to ensure lethality. But, as evidenced by these patterns, delivering energy to the target is generally achieved more easily and effectively with buckshot, which is one of the reasons it remains the most popular choice for defensive purposes.

You must have missed the 25 yard targets. In the article they are also talking about 12 gauge, not the 20 guage you are using. The 12 guage has 30% more energy and shot.

If birdshot was effective at stopping someone do you think this 76 year old man would have survived after getting shot in the chest, head and neck with birdshot?
Dick Cheney hunting incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:01 PM
 
Location: MS
4,396 posts, read 4,899,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Govie View Post
The "Judge"? I haven't shot one but I heard they are not very great. Though loading one .410 and having the rest .45 I've heard is its best application.
Even though my dad has one, I've never shot it. But the Hornady ammo looks good. http://www.hornady.com/store/410-Bore-CD/
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:44 PM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,190,445 times
Reputation: 3411
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Chokes and loads can be tweaked, but as a general rule, the pellets—and therefore the energy—of birdshot widens and disperses over a shorter distance than buckshot. So, if you prefer to use birdshot, proper patterning is absolutely essential to ensure lethality. But, as evidenced by these patterns, delivering energy to the target is generally achieved more easily and effectively with buckshot, which is one of the reasons it remains the most popular choice for defensive purposes.

You must have missed the 25 yard targets. In the article they are also talking about 12 gauge, not the 20 guage you are using. The 12 guage has 30% more energy and shot.

If birdshot was effective at stopping someone do you think this 76 year old man would have survived after getting shot in the chest, head and neck with birdshot?
Dick Cheney hunting incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm not big enough to handle a 12 gauge safely, but I do understand the difference in firepower between the two weapons. My husband would use the 12 gauge, but I'm talking about a scenario where I'm home alone with the kids. The big issue is where you're shooting. If I have to shoot someone, it's going to be inside my home, or while they're in the process of breaking into my home at the door, at very short range--if someone is outside I'll let the sheriff handle it, and we actually get fairly quick response out here (not true in all places). If you start shooting at someone who's outside, and not actively trying to enter your home, it's a good way to go to prison yourself.

Cheney shot that guy with bird shot at 30-40 yards--not at close range. If I shoot someone at 7-10 feet (about the distance from my bed to the door) in a defensive position behind the bed with a 20 gauge and bird shot--especially if I shoot him in the face or the groin-- he's not going to be doing anything but screaming and rolling around on the ground. The same is true with meeting him at the door. A youth sized shotgun is shorter so I have room to maneuver with it inside, vs. a bigger shotgun, plus I have a hard time staying on my feet if I fire a 12 gauge. I understand that buckshot will do a lot more damage, but I have 5 kids, often all over the house at different points in the night, or with friends sleeping over. I'm not personally going to take the risk of killing my kids or someone else's kid because of penetration through a couple of walls. Because of our dog, we'll have plenty of warning, and the most logical situation is meeting someone trying to break in a door. Even then the security lights will all be on outside and I'll have called the sheriff. I would have time to load and choose buckshot if that was a more logical choice (the kids were accounted for) but you CAN defend yourself with birdshot at close range, which would be the case in a home break in.

Last edited by mb1547; 04-09-2013 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:50 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,797,822 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
I'm not big enough to handle a 12 gauge safely, but I do under stand the difference in firepower between the two weapons. The big issue is where you're shooting. If I have to shoot someone, it's going to be inside my home, or while they're in the process of breaking into my home at the door, at very short range--if someone is outside I'll let the sheriff handle it, and we actually get fairly quick response out here (not true in all places).

Cheney shot that guy with bird shot at 30-40 yards--not at close range. If I shoot someone at 7 feet (about the distance from my bed to the door) in a defensive position behind the bed with a 20 gauge and bird shot--especially if I shoot him in the face or the groin-- he's not going to be doing anything but screaming. The same is true with meeting him at the door. A youth sized shotgun is shorter so I have room to maneuver with it inside, vs. a bigger shotgun. I understand that buckshot will do a lot more damage, but I have 5 kids, often all over the house at different points in the night, or with friends over. I'm not personally going to take the risk of killing my kids or someone else's kid because of penetration through a couple of walls. Because of our dog, we'll have plenty of warning, and the most logical situation is meeting someone trying to break in a door. Even then the security lights will all be on outside and I'll have called the sheriff. I would have time to load and choose buckshot if that was a more logical choice (the kids were accounted for) but you CAN defend yourself with birdshot at close range, which would be the case in a home break in.

It's your choice to use what ever gun you want. Practiy speaking it is widely understood that birdshot it a poor choice for self defense, though it is better than nothing.

I will choose to use a handgun and have an ar15 readily available. I know you do not like this, but it is my choice, and that is why I have a problem with you telling me what I should or shouldn't be able to use in your earlier posts.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,512,309 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post
The barrel is rifled and therefore not a shotgun by the unconstitutional ATF's definition.
My 38 special, is not rifled
My 1911 is not rifled
My 1928 is not rifled


Can you imagine the spread on a rifled shotgun, as the shot swirls out the barrel.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:54 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,797,822 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
My 38 special, is not rifled
My 1911 is not rifled
My 1928 is not rifled


Can you imagine the spread on a rifled shotgun, as the shot swirls out the barrel.
Why would you want a smooth bore handgun?
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:54 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,512,309 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
It's your choice to use what ever gun you want. Practiy speaking it is widely understood that birdshot it a poor choice for self defense, though it is better than nothing.

I will choose to use a handgun and have an ar15 readily available. I know you do not like this, but it is my choice, and that is why I have a problem with you telling me what I should or shouldn't be able to use in your earlier posts.

I like the kinetic energy my tommy gun has.
100 rounds of .45acp doesn't hurt.

Swiss cheese comes to mind.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:00 PM
 
Location: MS
4,396 posts, read 4,899,877 times
Reputation: 1559
Too bad the ATF won't let anyone import the double barreled AR-15 - Silver Shadow Gilboa Snake Double Barreled AR-15 from Israel | The Firearm Blog

I know it isn't practical but I want one.
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