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Old 04-10-2013, 08:35 AM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,601,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
I'm a male going into teaching. I'm well aware of instances of male disadvantage. They might even affect me.

I just don't feel the need to turn this into a men vs. women battle and attack feminists (most of whom have a main goal of ensuring gender equality for everyone) in order to address instances of male disadvantage.
Kudos to you for going into teaching. Just so you know, male teachers make more than female teachers nationally, so I think you'll be in good shape.

 
Old 04-10-2013, 09:28 AM
 
35,916 posts, read 30,465,349 times
Reputation: 32180
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
That is all that was reported. Since it's still taboo for men to report such things, those numbers cannot possibly be taken as accurate on the men's side. I have no doubt about the women.

But until people are more compassionate towards male victims, men will hesitate to report crimes. You aren't helping by denying men have valid equal rights issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
And I would bet that you want people to believe what you want them to about male privilege, sexual predator s being mostly men, and domestic violence being mostly perpetrated by men. There aren't any accurate numbers to support such claims, as men are blocked from reporting such crimes due to systematic discrimination. Men are laughed at or seen as week if they report such crimes, they have no private shelters or resources to turn to. If I was being abused by my wife I wouldn't want to go to or talk to a women shelter. I probably wouldn't go to the police as they would believe her over me. All she would have to do is claim she is the victim and I would be arrested. Laws could be enforced that require police to take men seriously. Laws could be enforced that provide men with safe place to turn aside from women's shelters. The sexual assault and domestic abuse debate is all about women. This makes it even more difficult for male victims.
Good lord man. There are statistics based on medical records and police reports and actual convictions pointing to men being the majority of perpetrators in domestic violence and sexual assaults. The same laws do exist to protect men. If individual men have it in their head that they will be laughed at or that it is too difficult for them to report abuse and prosecute that is on them. Are you not aware that women also faced this same stigma? That it was acceptable to beat and rape your wife. Do you not know women were often humiliated and blamed for their abuse and rape at one time they were actually stoned for being raped? These rights you feel are only available to women were fought for, for decades. Many, many women suffered discrimination, humiliation unfair judicial practices and worse but fought on to get to where we are today. Why do you feel this same victory should be just automatically handed to men without the same efforts? If you want these issues to change you men will have to dig in and fight. Stop expecting someone else to do it for you. You already have the resources and the path has been paved. You keep spouting male privilege it sounds like you do believe men should somehow be entitled to something other groups have had to sacrifice to obtain.
 
Old 04-10-2013, 09:38 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,314,696 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
And I would bet that you want people to believe what you want them to about male privilege, sexual predator s being mostly men, and domestic violence being mostly perpetrated by men. There aren't any accurate numbers to support such claims,
Did you get this nonsense from a men's rights group website?
 
Old 04-10-2013, 10:15 AM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,167,923 times
Reputation: 3411
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
How about a man's right to abort their duty as a father without punishment? If a woman has the sole right to end a pregnancy, men should have an option as well since we can't tell them to get an abortion or not. Abortion is a woman's choice, there is no denying that. Men should have the choice of fatherhood or not without being forced to pay child support. If a woman decide s to have the baby, she does so as her own, and should be required to care for that child on her own if the father decides he does not want to have a child.

Good lord you're a whiner. You absolutely have the right to abort your "duty" as a father--it's called NOT HAVING SEX. If you want a greatly reduced chance of being a dad, then be responsible for your own birth control. IF your birth control fails, then you're in the same boat as the woman--responsible for a pregnancy that you both have to support. Because it's her body, she gets a second shot at making the choice to carry the pregnancy or not, but you made your decision at the time that you slept with her. Buck up and put your big girl panties on--it's called life and personal responsibility.

Alimony should be abolished.

In a world where one partner doesn't make huge sacrifices professionally for the good of the family, and where both partners share the responsibilities of parenting and taking care of the home equally, I might agree with you, but it doesn't work that way. In fact, most women who work away from the home spend almost 20 hours more per week than men in those duties. It's pretty hard to put in the time at work to advance professionally if you're the one who's responsible for picking up kids after school, running them to soccer practice, getting them from school when they're sick, putting a meal on the table, etc. etc. while your partner works late. Alimony is simply the recognition that one party needs to be compensated for choices the FAMILY made that hindered the career opportunities of the other. If you decide to be a stay at home dad, or if you make less than your wife and take on the majority of the child care responsibilities, then you'll get alimony too. It's not about women--it's about the ROLE you take on in the family. Again--you're being a huge whiner with zero personal responsibility.

I might add--my husband and I CHOSE TOGETHER to raise 5 kids, and I decided to stay home for years--AT HIS REQUEST AND WITH HIS BACKING--because it was less expensive to have me home vs. paying for childcare, less stressful on the entire family, and better for my husbands career advancement, if I could take care of the home front and let my husband work vs. trying to share those responsibilities. Many women, especially professional women, aren't thrilled about staying home--that's a complete myth--but I made a sacrifice and did it. Now I'm back at work. I'm a highly educated person, but you bet my career advancement took a hit. I've been happily married for decades, and I will be until I die, but I'd absolutely deserve alimony IF my husband and I decided to divorce. Anyone in that position would.


Selective service should not be a requirement to apply for pell grants, vote, get a license, or a student loan.
We haven't had a draft since the Vietnam war, and women can serve in combat roles now. Pass the ERA and women will sign up too. They'll serve in combat if they can meet the physical requirements. The funny part is that the greatest opposition to the ERA comes from MEN.

Circumcision should be the choice of an adult male, not their parents, often the mothers choice.
So start a campaign on your beliefs on circumcision and stop whining. Actually, most mothers follow the recommendation of their ob/gyn and pediatrician, who until fairly recently in history were all MEN. Start there.

Prison sentencing should be equal if the crime is equal.

You still haven't shown a drop of data that proves that isn't the case.

False accusers should face the same amount of time the person they accused served or would have served if found guilty.
False accusers for what? Rape? Domestic Violence? When someone recants testimony about rape or domestic violence where there's a prosecution it becomes national news because IT ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS. To get a conviction to begin with these days you pretty much need DNA evidence, injuries and/or witnesses, depending on the situation. It's tough to win the prosecutions to begin with.

Affirmative action should be based on income before gender or race.
Because your life is so terrible as a white male. Poor baby. Boo hoo.

There is just a few. There are more, but this is a good start.
I might add--the men as care providers line is ridiculous too. If that were the case, there would be no male elementary school teachers, no male nurses, no male boy scout leaders, and no male coaches for pee week sports programs, etc. I know a High School Football coach in a small school district who teaches 1st grade. I know male pediatric nurses, and I know a couple of men who work in child care centers. If people don't want to hire you for those positions, maybe you'd better look at yourself and see if there's something about YOU personally that makes people nervous having you around young children.

Last edited by mb1547; 04-10-2013 at 11:05 AM..
 
Old 04-10-2013, 10:34 AM
 
35,916 posts, read 30,465,349 times
Reputation: 32180
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Like world war 2? Why is it so hard for some to acknowledge the MEN have protect this nation for over 200 years. Every man has to enroll with selective service for the common defense, instead of snarky comments, recognize how much some have given for your freedom.
What has that to do with life being harder for men than women? Who do you think has made the decision that women are not capable to serve in the military? If you get down to it women have been fighting and are continuing to fight for the same right to serve their country.

My father served on the front lines in the Philippine islands during WWII. My Grandfather fought in WWI. I have male relatives that fought and died in the Civil War and uncles that fought in Korea and Vietnam. Never have I heard one of them whine that they had it so much harder in life than women because they served their country.
[SIZE=3]I now have female relatives that are in the military. Just now because previously women were only permitted to serve in limited capacities. They are still fighting for combat status.[/SIZE]
 
Old 04-10-2013, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,316,478 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
The way I was talking about earlier WOULD allow the man to make his choice.
Yeah, both should have a say before or after the act.


Quote:
I am a stay at home mom. I haven't had a full time job in over 12 years, I have been a substitute teacher off and on. I do everything in the house, cook, clean, do the shopping, take care of the kids needs, tend the garden, take care of the animals, handle the finances, do the taxes, handle all appointments, buy the last minute birthday gifts, bake hundreds of cookies for school events, do all school meetings, run the cars for service, do the home repairs,etc. All my wife has to do is go to work 5-6 days a week. She does help me with heavy spring cleaning.
Since I take care of everything else, she has been able to concentrate on her career and promotions. She never has to worry about needing to find a sitter if she works late or has to travel for work, she never has to worry about dinner for the kids if she has to work overtime.

There are millions of families just like mine, in many of them the man stays home and the woman is the sole breadwinner.
Good for them, alimony is still outdated and needs to go away or be updated.


Quote:
I have already shown you womens groups that are fighting to end MGM. Sorry if not everyone agrees, but that is life. You will never get everyone to agree on everything.
I understand that.


Quote:
That doesn't show the crime, or criminal records of those cases, It only shows that there are more men in the penal system.
This is a cop-out. Several studies have show this to be true, but because you don't like their results, you deny the validity of their claim.


Quote:
Did you not notice that you linked to a womens news site. That site was saying that the comments were disgusting.
Yes, I did. But like I said, not one word from the feminists. This story has seen little serious coverage and the absurd comments have barely been criticized. One site is the

Quote:
Both male and female victims are talked about. "She deserved it" "she was dressed like a ****" "she should have never been there in the first place"

Both sides deal with the same thing. The only way to change perceptions is for victims to stand up.
Yes, both male and female victims are talked about in disgusting ways. But, society only gets into an uproar when women are being blamed. Both sides do deal with the same thing, the difference is that men are willing to stand up for the female and sometimes male victims, but when it comes to male vitcims, society fails completely. Ever notice when a story about a woman being raped makes the news this site has several threads start about it. How many for the mane that was raped? Search results: 0.
 
Old 04-10-2013, 10:47 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,768,545 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
What has that to do with life being harder for men than women? Who do you think has made the decision that women are not capable to serve in the military? If you get down to it women have been fighting and are continuing to fight for the same right to serve their country.

My father served on the front lines in the Philippine islands during WWII. My Grandfather fought in WWI. I have male relatives that fought and died in the Civil War and uncles that fought in Korea and Vietnam. Never have I heard one of them whine that they had it so much harder in life than women because they served their country.
[SIZE=3]I now have female relatives that are in the military. Just now because previously women were only permitted to serve in limited capacities. They are still fighting for combat status.[/SIZE]
Because many men fought and died for this country not by choice but because they were drafted. When women sign up for the draft then this will no longer be an issue.

Women serve in more roles in the military now then ever before, yet men are still over 98% of US casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan when men only make up 86% of military personnel in theater.
 
Old 04-10-2013, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,261 posts, read 14,108,563 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Yeah, both should have a say before or after the act.
Both should decide before the fact.



Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Good for them, alimony is still outdated and needs to go away or be updated.
It has been updated. Men get alimony too, if the woman was the main financial provider.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I understand that.
Then why are you still fussing. You were proven wrong, accept it. There are women fighting for mens rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
This is a cop-out. Several studies have show this to be true, but because you don't like their results, you deny the validity of their claim.
Where are these "several studies" that compare previous criminal records, and the crime being charged, and all extenuating circumstances, as well as the jail sentance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Yes, I did. But like I said, not one word from the feminists. This story has seen little serious coverage and the absurd comments have barely been criticized. One site is the
Every group does not have to fight for every cause. Start your own group to support your causes. No one else is going to do exactly what you want. I have shown women who are standing up for your rights, you can not expect everyone to support your cause, or condemn the things you don't like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Yes, both male and female victims are talked about in disgusting ways. But, society only gets into an uproar when women are being blamed. Both sides do deal with the same thing, the difference is that men are willing to stand up for the female and sometimes male victims, but when it comes to male vitcims, society fails completely. Ever notice when a story about a woman being raped makes the news this site has several threads start about it. How many for the mane that was raped? Search results: 0.
Well then bring it to societies attention. You can not force society to act and believe as you want them to.
Get over it and do something about it, just like women have had to do.
 
Old 04-10-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,316,478 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
I'm a male going into teaching. I'm well aware of instances of male disadvantage. They might even affect me.

I just don't feel the need to turn this into a men vs. women battle and attack feminists (most of whom have a main goal of ensuring gender equality for everyone) in order to address instances of male disadvantage.
Not turning this into Wen vs. Women. I am trying to stop that. I started this thread to ask why SOME feminists are against the idea of men's rights and issues being brought up. I was attacked from the start and the debate you see now is a derailment of the actual topic.

It doesn't matter if you think they are legitimate issues or rights, If you stand for equality, it's your job to do have some common sense before you dismiss someones claim. But most of the feminist left think men's rights are a joke as proven here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
Men's rights advocacy groups are like white rights advocacy groups in America redundant and hateful.
Without proper understanding of Men's rights groups this user illogically lumps them in as a hate group. While there is no doubt that some of the MRG's out there are hateful and just plain childish, this does not speak true for ALL men's rights groups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
So you want me to do your work. This seems to be becoming a theme. You are proclaiming foul and accusing feminists (which is very vauge). If you want to be taken seriously give specific examples/links. As I said your examples for the most part have nothing to do with rights. I agree there were a few legitmate examples but again where is the advocacy on men's part. I have never heard of and activists or what they are doing to bring these issues to the public attention. Do you?
I have, read the thread. I am not going to post it several times for your convenience, Just because you don't like the examples I provide or don't want to read through the thread. These are both rights and issues. There are several Men's rights advocacy groups that are trying to bring these issues and rights into the publics attention. But, everytime a man stands up to do so, he is blocked by feminists. I have been to a few Men's rights rallies and each time feminists are there, with their bullhorns, and megaphones. I do speak out about these things, but when I do there is a group of feminists are every event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
And women put that in place?
Not surprising, methinks you're barking up the wrong tree.
Never said women put that in place. Why do you think I am against women? I don't blame them for this crap, I blame society in general.
 
Old 04-10-2013, 11:02 AM
 
35,916 posts, read 30,465,349 times
Reputation: 32180
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Because many men fought and died for this country not by choice but because they were drafted. When women sign up for the draft then this will no longer be an issue.

Women serve in more roles in the military now then ever before, yet men are still over 98% of US casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan when men only make up 86% of military personnel in theater.
So because only men were drafted their lifes have been overall harder than womens. My dad was drafted and he hated the military, it almost killed him but he still never whined about how much his life was harder because my mom wasnt drafted as well. Will it make you happy if more women die in non combat positions? Women are officially allowed in combat so naturally the percentage of casualities will be higher for men.

I agree that either both genders register or none, but blaming women or feminists isnt the answer.
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