Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You don't have to agree, just like not ALL feminist groups have to agree with your beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
I care more about how much they get.
Courts have mathematical formulas they use. The gender isn't even considered in many states. Florida looks at only the numbers.
Other states need to catch up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
Because it needs to be taken seriously and we need to speak up about it.
Then talk about the actual issues, instead of bashing feminists for not fighting your fight for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
This is the idiocy I am talking about. You will never find criminal records that match. The studies show that men get more time for the same crime than women do. It doesn't matter what their criminal history is, it's a gender gap and it is a legitimate issue. If you actually read the links I gave you, you would find most of what you are looking for.
Criminal history does matter in sentencing. A person who steals from another, but has no criminal history is going to get a lesser sentence than a repeat offender. The same goes for any crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
I don't expect every group to support every cause. I expect every group that is for equality to step aside and not block equality when it comes to mens's rights.
Do you think that groups just move out of the way for others fighting for their rights? I am currently fighting for MY equal rights, Should I be mad that other groups are not helping, or are actively opposing my rights? No, that is how the whole thing works.
Fight your fight, I'll fight my fight. The only way we are going to clash is if you are actively fihgting against me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
I'm trying to. But I can't shove the feminists that rise up against me. My options for avoiding them are slim.
Then fight harder. Do you think that the people opposing womens right to vote politely moved out of our way? No, we had to claw, and bite to get equality.
I'm sorry that you are feeling overwhelmed, but every person, or group that is fighting for equal rights feels the same way. You can't expect others to carry your torch for you. Go fight for what you want. You may win or lose, but at least you can say you tried.
No it has not. Men have no say when it comes to the womans body. I am not denying this. Men should not have to be forced to have a child the don't want. A common argument is that most women get abortions for financial reasons, how is it justifiable for a woman to do this, but not for a man to do it? Since the man can't control the woman's decision, and shouldn't even try to IMO, its a woman's body, it's her choice. Its a mans life, he should also have a choice.
No, I don't expect you to fight tooth and nail for our rights. I expect you (feminists: men and women) to shut your mouth when we speak up about our issues. I expect you to move out of our way so we can do something to change it. I expect you not to protest our rallies and events. I expect you to not pull the fire alarm in order to silence us. I don't get in your way, I expect the same courtesy.
The other side of any issue is not going to simply sit by and be silent. That has never happened in any equal rights battle.
I was at a marriage equality vigil a few weeks ago, we had people screaming in our faces. We had people throwing things at us. One person had their headlights busted.
Should I expect them to just go sit down and shut up? Should I expect them to not come protest?
Then talk about the actual issues, instead of bashing feminists for not fighting your fight for you.
I DON'T EXPECT THEM TO FIGHT FOR ME. I EXPECT THEM TO KEEP THEIR MOUTH SHUT AND NOT OPPOSE US WHEN WE DO SPEAK ABOUT IT. Just as I have no say in abortion debates, women have no say in the circumcision debate.
Quote:
Criminal history does matter in sentencing. A person who steals from another, but has no criminal history is going to get a lesser sentence than a repeat offender. The same goes for any crime.
The studies do take into account the similarities . A man charged with a sexual crime, whit no criminal record will face longer jail time than a woman will.
Quote:
Do you think that groups just move out of the way for others fighting for their rights? I am currently fighting for MY equal rights, Should I be mad that other groups are not helping, or are actively opposing my rights? No, that is how the whole thing works.
Do you have something against men speaking up about their issues and inequalitie? If not, then why are you still here?
Quote:
Fight your fight, I'll fight my fight. The only way we are going to clash is if you are actively fihgting against me.
That's how it should be. You are ignoring that feminists are actively fighting against men's rights groups. They protest their events without cause.
Quote:
Then fight harder. Do you think that the people opposing womens right to vote politely moved out of our way? No, we had to claw, and bite to get equality.
But you would think that a group that has had to undergo similar opposition would not resist or fight against us. This is what I am trying to get at. If you had to fight tooth and nail for your rights, I would think you would not oppose someone trying to fight for theirs.
Quote:
I'm sorry that you are feeling overwhelmed, but every person, or group that is fighting for equal rights feels the same way. You can't expect others to carry your torch for you. Go fight for what you want. You may win or lose, but at least you can say you tried.
Losing is not an option. I will burn anyone who gets in my way from now on.
I think every movement has its naysayers. Its a strategy to demoralize, shame, de-energize and ultimately silence an activist movement into the shadows. I remember when minorities were called animals for being vocal. Women were called jezebels, whores, or bad mothers for wanting careers or sexual liberation, gays were called perverts and deviants and attention mongers for demanding tolerance of their sexual conduct. Men will be called whiners and punks, because this is supposed to work as an affront to their traditional identity as a man. They are conditioned to be unemotional, and being called a whiner is an accusation of openly showing emotion. Yet, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Nothing ever gets accomplished or changed through silence and inaction; change certainly didnt happen by any of the other groups worrying about sounding like "whiners" or whatever. So I think men will just have to do like every other group and ignore it and continue to first bring attention to the issues they feel are important to them which can only happen through continuing to be vocal, and secondly address those issues as best they can internally....but I see no harm in men having advocates...all you can do is do what you feel is right - win, lose, or draw.
I'm not blaming anyone. Your father might not have whined about it but his life was signifigantly harder while in the military plus any life long issues associated with physical or mental injuries which also could have made his life harder (which is true for many soldiers though it is conjecture if it applies specifically for your father).
I'm not blaming women for not having a larger role in past or current military actions. All I want is acknowledgment from many on this board for what Men have done and are still doing for this country.
Many on this forum dismiss the sacrifices men have made for this country because they either don't believe in the particular war or because they volunteered. So many have engrained in their heads that everyone is equal or women's lives are harder (which in certain instances is true) but complete skip the obvious sacrafices of men in our military.
I must have missed those remarks. I dont recall anyone dismissing the sacrifices our soldiers have made for our country.
This is an interesting take, because if you let many male feminists tell it, they are also in the "fight" with you...lol..I guess we now know what their contribution really means. At the end of the day, they're fighting a battle in which they arent even acknowledged as being in...it seems they are still considered an opponent or a nonsequitur at best...a sort of male humanshield used only to give validity to a particular perspective. After which time, they are discarded, and re-relegated back to being the oppressive opponent.
If they're working on issues where men truly face discrimination and challenges, then of course they have the support of people concerned about equality. The problem comes in with the issues they're raising as "discriminatory"--like ending child support and alimony, etc. etc. That's not about equality--that's about not wanting to carry your fair share of the load or taking personal responsibility, and then blaming women for having to do it.
The other factor comes in when they refuse to acknowledge that there are some crimes--like rape and domestic violence--when men really are the vast majority of the perps--it's NOT just that they under report. Both crimes are about dominance and control. When men and boys are raped, they are MOST OFTEN raped by other men. Are there female rapists of children? Sure, but if they get caught, they go to jail just like everyone else, and the same kind of counseling is available to male victims--both children and adult survivors--that are available to female victims. If you're concerned that men under report, then you need to deal with the culture of other MEN that make that difficult--most women are very supportive of anyone, male or female, who've faced that type of violence. Plenty of men have come forward who've been abused by teachers and priests--the stigma is about gone, or at least it's no greater than the one faced by female survivors.
As far as domestic violence, there are instances where women really do follow the "cycle of violence" common to most abusive relationships: socially isolate men so they have no support network, make them financially dependent on them, and keep them in constant fear of their lives through serious physical assault--but it doesn't happen often. A slap on the face from anyone is wrong, but that alone isn't what keeps people paralyzed in relationships and unable to leave an abusive partner. Men, just because of their size and strength, in most cases can do a lot more damage than women. Most men work, so they have financial independence plus they have more access to other adults around them--they can LEAVE and they aren't as socially isolated--they can seek support. Unless a woman is hitting you with a 2x4, or she's twice your size, she's not likely to hurt you to the point where you are in constant fear of being hurt, or for your life. I'm not taking away from the fact than SOME men are DV victims, but it doesn't happen all that often. Most of the male DV victims I've seen are gay and being hurt by another male, or disabled/elderly and dependent on an abusive caregiver.
The other problem is when these men's rights bozos seem to partner all of this with the line that most women who claim that they've been raped or abused are filing false claims and lying. My experience is that most of them have a history of violence themselves, and they just want to blame the world and not take responsibility for their own behavior.
Last edited by mb1547; 04-10-2013 at 11:19 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
