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Old 04-18-2013, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,755,730 times
Reputation: 5691

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Once again, with the gun debate we are seeing the abject stupidity of our two party system in the USA. It seems like over the last two decades, partisanship has become so strong that no matter what the other guy proposes, the hordes of political operatives paint it as the end of the world.

Expanding health care to those left out in the cold? ObamaScare!
Trying to expand oversight to avoid another Exxon or Deepwater Horizon. Job killing regulations!
Working to strengthen background checks after massacres. Gun grabbing!

Etc.,etc.,etc.


No matter if the majority of the citizens want to go in any direction. Screw the people and screw the rules. It is all about my team winning.

The partisans will see any effort as a potential victory for the other side that they need to fight tooth and nail. It has devolved into an idiotic and intellectually dishonest game that serves no one except entrenched interests who can manipulate their fans.

It is, frankly, a disgrace. I sure hope that one day we can move back towards real debate and discussion in this country instead of this idiocy and sleaze masquerading as a political process.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:16 AM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,324,011 times
Reputation: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Once again, with the gun debate we are seeing the abject stupidity of our two party system in the USA. It seems like over the last two decades, partisanship has become so strong that no matter what the other guy proposes, the hordes of political operatives paint it as the end of the world.

Expanding health care to those left out in the cold? ObamaScare!
Trying to expand oversight to avoid another Exxon or Deepwater Horizon. Job killing regulations!
Working to strengthen background checks after massacres. Gun grabbing!

Etc.,etc.,etc.


No matter if the majority of the citizens want to go in any direction. Screw the people and screw the rules. It is all about my team winning.

The partisans will see any effort as a potential victory for the other side that they need to fight tooth and nail. It has devolved into an idiotic and intellectually dishonest game that serves no one except entrenched interests who can manipulate their fans.

It is, frankly, a disgrace. I sure hope that one day we can move back towards real debate and discussion in this country instead of this idiocy and sleaze masquerading as a political process.
this, This, 1000 times THIS.
I love the idea behind differernt viewpoints, I hate the idea of "us vs them".
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,596,242 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Once again, with the gun debate we are seeing the abject stupidity of our two party system in the USA. It seems like over the last two decades, partisanship has become so strong that no matter what the other guy proposes, the hordes of political operatives paint it as the end of the world.

Expanding health care to those left out in the cold? ObamaScare!
Trying to expand oversight to avoid another Exxon or Deepwater Horizon. Job killing regulations!
Working to strengthen background checks after massacres. Gun grabbing!

Etc.,etc.,etc.


No matter if the majority of the citizens want to go in any direction. Screw the people and screw the rules. It is all about my team winning.

The partisans will see any effort as a potential victory for the other side that they need to fight tooth and nail. It has devolved into an idiotic and intellectually dishonest game that serves no one except entrenched interests who can manipulate their fans.

It is, frankly, a disgrace. I sure hope that one day we can move back towards real debate and discussion in this country instead of this idiocy and sleaze masquerading as a political process.


You have to understand the corrupt progressive political machine. That is all they are going to give us to choose from. As soon as a real Conservative makes waves, the Progressives in both parties slap them.

Rand, Mike & Ted vs. Lindsey, John & Mitt..... I rest my case.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,755,730 times
Reputation: 5691
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
You have to understand the corrupt progressive political machine. That is all they are going to give us to choose from. As soon as a real Conservative makes waves, the Progressives in both parties slap them.

Rand, Mike & Ted vs. Lindsey, John & Mitt..... I rest my case.

I don't get your case. The progressives are calling the shots? Hardly.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,596,242 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
I don't get your case. The progressives are calling the shots? Hardly.


It may be a two party system, but for decades it has been a one forced value, of progressive control.

You see it with the elections in 2010 and the new members of congress place into office that everyone in the media want to label TEA Party. 2012 add more with these same values, moving from the one world order theme.


What is Conservative about big spending, big government and war for intervention?
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:59 AM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,383,429 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
You have to understand the corrupt progressive political machine. That is all they are going to give us to choose from. As soon as a real Conservative makes waves, the Progressives in both parties slap them.

Rand, Mike & Ted vs. Lindsey, John & Mitt..... I rest my case.
The two party system is limiting.

"The Oregon Republican Party urges you to vote NO on Measure 65
In 2008 66% of Oregon Voters defeated Measure 65.

We know the Montana Republican Party would like to control the political marketplace by eliminating the competition from the general election. One would think the Montana Republicans would support the Free market and competition of idea's. This is not the case. SB 408 will discourage people from running for office and plunge our voter turnout to new lows. In California the 2012 primary was 30-percent, all time low. The biggest none of the above vote in California was in the 31st Congressional district, where 23.14 percent of the voters chose to leave the office blank. This was a Democratic district, yet the only two candidates on the ballot were two Republicans, Gary Miller (who won) and Bob Dutton.

Why put something this complex before voters, in what will tear down political parties. The concept of a political party is to nominate the party's representative to the general election. SB 408 will destroy that process. I hope you consider the consequences of your vote on SB 408. Please vote no on SB 408. As the Chairman of the California Republican Party said; "So who in their Right (or Left of center) mind would completely replace our voting system, with another system, with no evidence that the new system actually works?" Why destroy our political process because the leadership of the Montana Republican Party wants to eliminate the competition, namely the Libertarian Party."
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:04 AM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,571,445 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Once again, with the gun debate we are seeing the abject stupidity of our two party system in the USA. It seems like over the last two decades, partisanship has become so strong that no matter what the other guy proposes, the hordes of political operatives paint it as the end of the world.
I sympathize, believe me, but it occurs to me that other English-speaking countries manage to deal with their public business while operating adversarial and highly partisan two (or maybe three) party systems.

There is not a great deal of shared ground between the Australian Liberal and Labour parties, for instance. Likewise, the partisan divide between Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and Labour in the U.K. is pretty stark. In fact, the ideological and policy-prescription differences are much wider than between Dem and Rep here.

But the difference is that those nations are democracies. In those countries, the voters are offered very stark and clear choices: do you want this, or do you want that? Then, having chosen, the will of the people is put into effect: one of the two or three choices gets to try out its solutions, which finally are judged by the country in the next general election.

So to my mind, the problem here in the U.S. is not partisanship, which I see as clarifying the electorate's choice, but a deficit of democracy: the choice of the electorate is always frustrated, by staggered elections, two equally powerful chambers, and most glaringly by our idiotic Senate rules.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,816,866 times
Reputation: 6509
So the two party system doesn't work because the other party doesn't agree with your party. Got it.

Everyone should just get a questionnaire mailed to their home and what ever bill gets 51% of the popular vote will be passed, civil rights be damned.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:09 AM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,571,445 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
So the two party system doesn't work because the other party doesn't agree with your party. Got it.
Assuming you're replying to me, that's not at all what I said: the two-party system doesn't work because our system frustrates a victory by either of the parties.

It's not so much that we have a two-party system: we have a system which almost always guarantees that neither party can do more than negate the other.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:12 AM
 
287 posts, read 185,062 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Once again, with the gun debate we are seeing the abject stupidity of our two party system in the USA. It seems like over the last two decades, partisanship has become so strong that no matter what the other guy proposes, the hordes of political operatives paint it as the end of the world.

Expanding health care to those left out in the cold? ObamaScare!
Trying to expand oversight to avoid another Exxon or Deepwater Horizon. Job killing regulations!
Working to strengthen background checks after massacres. Gun grabbing!

Etc.,etc.,etc.


No matter if the majority of the citizens want to go in any direction. Screw the people and screw the rules. It is all about my team winning.

The partisans will see any effort as a potential victory for the other side that they need to fight tooth and nail. It has devolved into an idiotic and intellectually dishonest game that serves no one except entrenched interests who can manipulate their fans.

It is, frankly, a disgrace. I sure hope that one day we can move back towards real debate and discussion in this country instead of this idiocy and sleaze masquerading as a political process.
George Washington warned us but we were too smart to listen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
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