Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Russians have had a lot of terrorist problems with the Chechens. The Russians being Russians invaded then, blew their country to kingdon come and killed 100,000 of them or so. It seems the Russians are not having so many problems with them any more.
Well, that whole area - all those splintered, former Soviet Union countries, are a hot, hot mess. I say leave them to their own devices and stay out of it all as much as possible.
Not all, but many. The Soviet Union threw a big blanket over a lot of once independent regions and nations that had long-standing conflicts internally and with their neighbors. All the blanket did was damp the flames. Once the union disappeared, the flames sprang back to life in some of them.
Very much depends on christian Russia vs. some of it's muslim provinces, and how much Russia depends on a particular province or not. Chechnia tried to secede from Russia in the 90's, and the revolt was brutally put down. In the 18 years that have passed since then, the Chechans have proved to be good recruiting ground for the Islamic radicals like Al-Quida.
In other muslim countries that gained their independence after the breakup, such as Uzbeckistan or Turkmenistan, the muslim radicals have been less successful. These people are closer ethnically and in location to both the middle east and asia than Russia, and don't have much to do with Russia now.
It really helps to understand what's going on if a person has a recent world map. Geography creates human societies and cultures everywhere.
Chechnya is basically a bunch of mountains clans in the Caucaus that have been trying to fight the Russians for over 300 years(and before that it was the Ottomans and the Persians or the Mongols). They only converted to Islam in the 18th and 19th Centuries--and it was in part a way to gain support from the Ottomans against the Russians who beginning to move south into the Caucaus. And the Islam they practised was initally Sufism--the less strict, more mystical sect despised by more fundamentalist Sunnis. Actually, I've read that Chechnya gradually became more hardcore Islamic--after the fall of the Soviet Union when more radical foreign elements went there as part of the war against the Russians in the 90s(Saudi wahbbists sent into the region brought fundamentlism to the region). Historically though, Islam was a relatively recent adoption in the region--and the Chechan culture goes back much further than that, and it was much more moderate in terms of religious faith--though it got increasingly more pronounced during the Soviet period during attempts to repress any religion.
During the intial Russian conquest of the region in 19th Century-there were large scale deportations of the Chechans from Chechnya--and after the rebellious Chechens were seen as possible collaborators with the Russians during World War II, Stalin basically attempted to ship almost the entire Chechen population to Siberia and destroy most of the remnants of Chechen culture. Over 700,000 people were sent east, and about 150,000-200,000 died. Chechens returned during the 1950s, but in part this is why the Chechens hate the Russian so much and were eager to rebel after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Basically though, the Russians will never give up Chechnya, no matter how long the Chechens fight. It's due to the strategic significance of the region--it guards the approach to the Caucaus Mountains(and beyond that Turkey and Iran). Same reason the Russians were so adamant about pushing their weight around in regards to the South Ossetians rebelling against Georgia. If Chechnya was independent the Russians would be worried Dagestan would rebel and then other Russian provinces in the area. It's part of the historic strategic goals of the Russian Empire to hold that region...
Meanwhile the Chechen are just one of those independent mountain cultures of the world that is willing to fight against who ever occupies them--they've been fighting for over a thousand years---so it's one of those warrior culture that puts a premium on fighting and allegience to clans(like the Afghan tribes or historically the Scottish)....
We didn't support Muslims instead of Christians in Bosnia. We supported the victims, who happened to be mainly Muslims, who were being massacred by Serbian aggressors, who happened to be Christian.
So we did support Muslims against the Serbs, who identify as Christians. Only not in Chechnya - in Bosnia.
By the way, I don't support genocide from anyone. So I'm not saying that we supported the wrong "side." In Bosnia, not Chechnya, I might add again (which was sort of the point of this thread, albeit a mistaken one).
Chechnya is basically a bunch of mountains clans in the Caucaus that have been trying to fight the Russians for over 300 years(and before that it was the Ottomans and the Persians or the Mongols). They only converted to Islam in the 18th and 19th Centuries--and it was in part a way to gain support from the Ottomans against the Russians who beginning to move south into the Caucaus. And the Islam they practised was initally Sufism--the less strict, more mystical sect despised by more fundamentalist Sunnis. Actually, I've read that Chechnya gradually became more hardcore Islamic--after the fall of the Soviet Union when more radical foreign elements went there as part of the war against the Russians in the 90s(Saudi wahbbists sent into the region brought fundamentlism to the region). Historically though, Islam was a relatively recent adoption in the region--and the Chechan culture goes back much further than that, and it was much more moderate in terms of religious faith--though it got increasingly more pronounced during the Soviet period during attempts to repress any religion.
During the intial Russian conquest of the region in 19th Century-there were large scale deportations of the Chechans from Chechnya--and after the rebellious Chechens were seen as possible collaborators with the Russians during World War II, Stalin basically attempted to ship almost the entire Chechen population to Siberia and destroy most of the remnants of Chechen culture. Over 700,000 people were sent east, and about 150,000-200,000 died. Chechens returned during the 1950s, but in part this is why the Chechens hate the Russian so much and were eager to rebel after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Basically though, the Russians will never give up Chechnya, no matter how long the Chechens fight. It's due to the strategic significance of the region--it guards the approach to the Caucaus Mountains(and beyond that Turkey and Iran). Same reason the Russians were so adamant about pushing their weight around in regards to the South Ossetians rebelling against Georgia. If Chechnya was independent the Russians would be worried Dagestan would rebel and then other Russian provinces in the area. It's part of the historic strategic goals of the Russian Empire to hold that region...
Meanwhile the Chechen are just one of those independent mountain cultures of the world that is willing to fight against who ever occupies them--they've been fighting for over a thousand years---so it's one of those warrior culture that puts a premium on fighting and allegience to clans(like the Afghan tribes or historically the Scottish)....
We didn't support Muslims instead of Christians in Bosnia. We supported the victims, who happened to be mainly Muslims, who were being massacred by Serbian aggressors, who happened to be Christian.
Yes, we supported the mostly Catholic Croatians in Bosnia as well--who have a dislike for the Serbs at the same level of the Bosniaks. Especially, for what they did during Croatia's war of independence when they shelled Dubrovnik and historic towns along the Dalmatian Coast.
Chechnya is basically a bunch of mountains clans in the Caucaus that have been trying to fight the Russians for over 300 years(and before that it was the Ottomans and the Persians or the Mongols). They only converted to Islam in the 18th and 19th Centuries--and it was in part a way to gain support from the Ottomans against the Russians who beginning to move south into the Caucaus. And the Islam they practised was initally Sufism--the less strict, more mystical sect despised by more fundamentalist Sunnis. Actually, I've read that Chechnya gradually became more hardcore Islamic--after the fall of the Soviet Union when more radical foreign elements went there as part of the war against the Russians in the 90s(Saudi wahbbists sent into the region brought fundamentlism to the region). Historically though, Islam was a relatively recent adoption in the region--and the Chechan culture goes back much further than that, and it was much more moderate in terms of religious faith--though it got increasingly more pronounced during the Soviet period during attempts to repress any religion.
<snip>
Yes also I do recall reading that a number of Chechens joined the Mujihadeen to fight in the Soviet War in Afghanistan (which of course means they received some funding by the US). That would explain a factor in why the number of radicals increased.
I know we have armed the Chechens in the past, but I have no idea which factions of them we supported.
I know when Russia invaded a few years ago, they were showing pictures of captured M16s we had given the Chechens...
Yes also I do recall reading that a number of Chechens joined the Mujihadeen to fight in the Soviet War in Afghanistan (which of course means they received some funding by the US). That would explain a factor in why the number of radicals increased.
Yes, the aftermath of the Afghan-Soviet War was that radical Islam had a pipeline to every flashpoint in the world with a Muslim population. So while the Chechens before might have been fighting more for Chechen nationalism historically--in the 90s you had Saudi money funding foreign fighters into the region and bring Wahabbist Islam to the area.
Historically though the Chechens are more about their clans and their homeland than any allegiance to radical Islam. Any assistance from that segment is more a means to an end for them... That's why a lot of Chechen clans turned to organized crime and made up a good sized Mafiya element in post-Soviet Russia--though the ethnic Russian gangs united against them in Moscow itself. In the end though, what they wanted was an independent Chechnya--while the Russian have been willing to do whatever it takes to prevent it. Which is why it's been historically such a bloody conflict... You have a culture based on a warrior-bandit tradition fighting against the Russian bear...
Dang it, all these weird little regions are hard to keep straight in my head.
Don't feel bad. My family is mostly Russian, originating from near Scandinavia. Communism (we are Jewish) brought us here.
It's a difficult history to learn, but very interesting indeed. And Moscow is an amazing city.
That darn Communist thing is hard to shake, and quite understadnably so.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
