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So we did support Muslims against the Serbs, who identify as Christians. Only not in Chechnya - in Bosnia.
By the way, I don't support genocide from anyone. So I'm not saying that we supported the wrong "side." In Bosnia, not Chechnya, I might add again (which was sort of the point of this thread, albeit a mistaken one).
See - I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong.
Genocide was from both parts, Bosnian muslims were even worse than Serbs. And we supported them not because they were victims, but because it was good to be against Russians who supported Serbs. We obviously made a mistake, same as with Kosovo.
The Russians have had a lot of terrorist problems with the Chechens. The Russians being Russians invaded then, blew their country to kingdon come and killed 100,000 of them or so. It seems the Russians are not having so many problems with them any more.
Actually, acts of terrorism were committed in Moscow in 2010 and 2011. In 2011, it was at Dododemovo Airport and was committed by someone from Ingushetia. It was a suicide bombing.
In 2010, there was a bombing at 2 Moscow metro stations. Doku Umarov, a Chechen terrorist leader, claimed responsibility for it.
Just hours after the Boston Marathon bombings, Russian President Vladimir Putin condemned the act as a “disgusting” crime and offered to help in any way he could.
Now’s his chance.
The Tsarnaev brothers appear to have Chechen roots; the older, now-deceased brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, may have touted radical Islamists on his YouTube site. (The only question is whether the site’s holder is the same Tamerlan Tsarnaev.)
There is no doubt, then, that Putin has a big interest in helping out with the FBI’s investigation—a much bigger interest than he did on Monday, before the Chechen link was suspected. More to the point, there is very little doubt that he also has the means to help out.
Putin’s popularity, in the early years of his presidency, stemmed largely from his hard-line tactics against the Chechen rebels, who were waging a separatist insurgency in their southern province and, to that end, launching terrorist attacks in Moscow. During that era, in the mid-to-late 1990s, the rebels, though mainly Muslim, were motivated largely by nationalism—as were the leaders of Chechen rebellions dating back to the 19th century.
But as Putin put down the insurgency with increasing force, the survivors grew more and more radical, and in the past few years, the movement has taken on explicitly Islamic colors, including an alliance with al-Qaida. This has only hardened Putin’s determination to defeat them.
One result of this: Russian intelligence services are all over Chechen radicals. That means that if—and this is a very big if—the Tsarnaevs had ever been in touch with Chechen radicals or with Islamists elsewhere who have ever been in touch with Chechen radicals, then Putin’s spy agencies have a record of it.
Putin has another reason for getting engaged in this probe. The 2014 Winter Olympics are taking place in Russia—specifically in Sochi, near the Black Sea and the Caucasus Mountains, only 300 miles from Chechnya. Putin’s biggest political and public-relations nightmare is a terrorist attack disrupting his Olympics, his grand moment on the world stage.
U.S. and Russian counterterrorism agencies already have a history of cooperating in tracking common enemies. If a joint effort plays some role in shining light on the Boston bombers’ motives or wider networks (if there are wider networks), that would strengthen these ties considerably—and possibly enhance the safety of the coming Olympics.
Starting from the Moscow theater hostage crisis in 2002, Russia was faced with increased levels of Islamist terrorism. The FSB, being the main agency responsible for counter-terrorist operations, was in the front line in the fight against terror. During the Moscow theater siege and the Beslan school siege, FSB's Spetsnaz units Alpha Group and Vympel played a key role in the hostage release operations.
However, their performance was criticised due to the high number of hostage casualties. In 2006, the FSB scored a major success in its counter-terrorist efforts when it successfully killed Shamil Basayev, the mastermind behind the Beslan tragedy and several other high-profile terrorist acts. According to the FSB, the operation was planned over six months and made possible due to the FSB's increased activities in foreign countries that were supplying arms to the terrorists.
Starting from 2009, the level of terrorism in Russia increased again. Particularly worrisome was the increase of suicide attacks. While between February 2005 and August 2008, no civilians were killed in such attacks, in 2008 at least 17 were killed and in 2009 the number rose to 45.
In March 2010, Islamist militants organised the 2010 Moscow Metro bombings, which killed 40 people. One of the two blasts took place at Lubyanka station, near the FSB headquarters. Militant leader Doku Umarov — dubbed "Russia's Osama Bin Laden" — took responsibility for the attacks.
. Soon, Alpha was assigned missions that far exceeded its formal scope.On 27 December 1979, Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev launched a surprise armed intervention and regime change operation in the allied Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. Soviet forces, including KGB commandos who had infiltrated the country on a pretense to guard the Soviet Embassy were able to quickly secure important governmental institutions through Kabul, such as Ministry of the Interior, headquarters of the KHAD security service, Ministry of Defense (Darul Aman Palace), and, in a 34-minute storming of Tajbeg Palace, successfully assassinated President Hafizullah Amin, killing him along with his mistress and a child son (the orders were to kill every Afghan in the building).
The assault on Tajbeg Palace was given the name Operation Storm-333 and involved a combined force of Soviet Airborne Troops (VDV) paratroopers and the special forces groups from the military intelligence GRU and the KGB, including 24 men from the "Thunder" detachment of Alpha Group,who were dressed in Afghan uniforms and headed by Grigoriy Boyarinov, commandant of special operations school of the KGB's Department 8.
It was Boyarinov who ordered that all Afghan witnesses of the operation are to be killed, and he himself was shot dead by Alpha troops when he was mistaken for a palace guard.
According to Russian sources, the members of this highly-trained group performed remarkably well and lost only two men killed; the lightest casualties of all forces involved in the raid.
However, the success of Storm-333 and the initial invasion also marked the beginning of the ten-year Soviet war in Afghanistan, and subsequently, Alpha Group's extensive involvement throughout the conflict.
Six years later, in October 1985, Alpha Group was dispatched to the war-torn Beirut, Lebanon. The Kremlin was informed of the kidnapping of four Russian diplomats by the militant group Islamic Liberation Organization (a radical offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood). It was believed that this was retaliation to the Russian support of the Syrian involvement in the Lebanese Civil War.
However, by the time Alpha arrived, word spread that one of the hostages had already been killed. Through a network of supporting KGB operatives, members of the task-force identified each of the perpetrators involved in the crisis, and once identified, began to take the relatives of these militants as hostages. Following the standard Soviet policy of no negotiations with terrorists, some of the hostages belonging to Alpha Group had been dismembered and their body parts where sent to the militants. The warning was clear: more would follow unless the remaining hostages are released immediately.
The show of force worked, and for a period of 20 years no Soviet or Russian officials were taken captive until the 2006 abduction and murder of four Russian embassy staff members in Iraq.
I mean our NATO/ISAF troops and former Soviet and Russians troops that served in Afghanistan where we both kind of ended up stuck In the same situation and the same outcome atleast we would have our experiences in that war to talk about and seems we have the same radical terrorist groups out to attack us.
Yes, the aftermath of the Afghan-Soviet War was that radical Islam had a pipeline to every flashpoint in the world with a Muslim population. So while the Chechens before might have been fighting more for Chechen nationalism historically--in the 90s you had Saudi money funding foreign fighters into the region and bring Wahabbist Islam to the area.
Historically though the Chechens are more about their clans and their homeland than any allegiance to radical Islam. Any assistance from that segment is more a means to an end for them... That's why a lot of Chechen clans turned to organized crime and made up a good sized Mafiya element in post-Soviet Russia--though the ethnic Russian gangs united against them in Moscow itself. In the end though, what they wanted was an independent Chechnya--while the Russian have been willing to do whatever it takes to prevent it. Which is why it's been historically such a bloody conflict... You have a culture based on a warrior-bandit tradition fighting against the Russian bear...
*adjusting my tin foil hat first*
Perhaps these Chechen bombers, were acting as puppets of Putin. Russia has now stirred up our collective anti-Muslim ire, and as such is attempting to manipulate/goad the US into action against Chechnya. It does sound like the authorities were expecting the bombing to happen.
Saddam Hussein was once America's boy. As a young guy the CIA groomed the man. When he was coming out of Kuwait he assumed that he was still part of the special entitled club supported by America. Why would he leave his Republican Guard out in the open in a long line going home? He actually thought he had immunity. He did not- America betrayed the dictator and sprayed his elite army with insecticide as if they were bugs...then took Saddam - set up a court under their control and hung him...The act took place only after the White House made the final phone call. Americans can be pirates - they are not all angels.
Perhaps these Chechen bombers, were acting as puppets of Putin. Russia has now stirred up our collective anti-Muslim ire, and as such is attempting to manipulate/goad the US into action against Chechnya. It does sound like the authorities were expecting the bombing to happen.
Don't think so. I think the brothers had connections with radical Islamic groups somewhere in the ME.
Saddam Hussein was once America's boy. As a young guy the CIA groomed the man. When he was coming out of Kuwait he assumed that he was still part of the special entitled club supported by America. Why would he leave his Republican Guard out in the open in a long line going home? He actually thought he had immunity. He did not- America betrayed the dictator and sprayed his elite army with insecticide as if they were bugs...then took Saddam - set up a court under their control and hung him...The act took place only after the White House made the final phone call. Americans can be pirates - they are not all angels.
Saddam Hussein was going to start to trade oil by euro, not dollar. Of course, he had to be devastated.
So we did support Muslims against the Serbs, who identify as Christians. Only not in Chechnya - in Bosnia.
By the way, I don't support genocide from anyone. So I'm not saying that we supported the wrong "side." In Bosnia, not Chechnya, I might add again (which was sort of the point of this thread, albeit a mistaken one).
See - I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong.
Yeah, we tend to support those groups that are getting slaughtered (literally) rather than the perpetrators who do the killing - often regardless of religious affiliation.
Don't think so. I think the brothers had connections with radical Islamic groups somewhere in the ME.
Could be. So what would be the goal? And why these two in particular?
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