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I would contend that a well-run company either doesn't need a union or doesn't mind having one. I was president of a company that wanted to de-certify their union because they felt that we, as management, were taking care of them better. After running the numbers, I convinced them to NOT to de-certify their union because it would have been expensive to match the health benefits provided by the union.
Having well paid, health and happy employees is to the benefit of the company. These employees stick around and therefore have experience and know-how. Having health coverage means that employees are not coming to work sick and disrupting production. Having pensions encourages employees to stay with the company. Wanting to stay with the company encourages them to work to their fullest.
These are all complimentary incentives that work to the benefit of both sides. It is sad that some management thinks they are in a war with their employees.
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68,329 posts, read 54,381,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaten_Drinker
We are not whining. We don't don't want to have to pay an extra $1000 per car to fund the pension of some GM workers who retired in 1975.
How do ya feel about paying extra for a product so a CEO who ran a company into the ground walks away with tens of millions of $$$ by contract? Why are unions singled out?
Why do you pro-union people feel so worthless that you feel if not for unions, your labor would be worth minimum wage?
What a silly question, lol!
For over 20 years, I worked in the office area for a company where factory workers were unionized. Pretty much without exception, union workers were unskilled, trained on-the-job for their specific duty, and certainly weren't good for much other than exactly what they were paid to do other than whoop and whistle at secretaries when they walked by. They were so dumb that they once went on strike for about 6 weeks, never realizing that the .25c raise they were asking for would never be recouped. They'd barter for a .10c raise knowing if they got it, their union dues would go up by $10.00/month and so would their taxes.
Spectacularly stupid, union people are.
Occasionally, one would rise to the top and bail out, transferring to office work. Once they were out of the factory and free of the union, they had nothing good to say about the union. They only joined in the first place to be certain they wouldn't be ostracized for being non-union. It was somewhat like 'team' mentality, and not unlike 0bamaland, where groups of people too dumb to think for themselves are swayed by their master while they slave away, not having a clue what self respect and responsibility mean.
Are you that insecure about your ability that you think that without union support your labor isn't valued?
I am glad that I was instilled with the self confidence of knowing that I don't need someone to negotiate my worth for me.
Are you that disconnected from the reality of decades so as to think that Unions had no influence on what you're paid today to perform whatever it is you think you're so good at that competiveness does not enter the equation for you and you alone?
You might excel at your particular skillset but here's the deal; if you are anything other than self-employed, there is someone out there ABLE and WILLING to perform your job, it only requires your employer to come into contact with THAT individual and your utopia, as you know it, is TOAST.
Pride in oneself is a valuable commodity but only to you my friend. You are not special and your employer wouldn't hesitate to replace you in a Minnesota minute if he thought he'd find someone more compliant and of similar skill. It's the American way.
Are you that disconnected from the reality of decades so as to think that Unions had no influence on what you're paid today to perform whatever it is you think you're so good at that competiveness does not enter the equation for you and you alone?
You might excel at your particular skillset but here's the deal; if you are anything other than self-employed, there is someone out there ABLE and WILLING to perform your job, it only requires your employer to come into contact with THAT individual and your utopia, as you know it, is TOAST.
Pride in oneself is a valuable commodity but only to you my friend. You are not special and your employer wouldn't hesitate to replace you in a Minnesota minute if he thought he'd find someone more compliant and of similar skill. It's the American way.
What I earn today has absolutely nothing to do with what unions did a century ago.
People live in a bubble....believing that at the turn of the 20th century every single person in America's workforce were paid slave labor rates.
It was the beginning of an industrial revolution and we had millions upon millions of poor, low skilled laborers pouring in from around the globe. Sort of like today.
Supply and demand my friend!
I too can leave my employer if a better situation comes along.
Why do you pro-union people feel so worthless that you feel if not for unions, your labor would be worth minimum wage?
What a silly question, lol!
For over 20 years, I worked in the office area for a company where factory workers were unionized. Pretty much without exception, union workers were unskilled, trained on-the-job for their specific duty, and certainly weren't good for much other than exactly what they were paid to do other than whoop and whistle at secretaries when they walked by. They were so dumb that they once went on strike for about 6 weeks, never realizing that the .25c raise they were asking for would never be recouped. They'd barter for a .10c raise knowing if they got it, their union dues would go up by $10.00/month and so would their taxes.
Spectacularly stupid, union people are.
Occasionally, one would rise to the top and bail out, transferring to office work. Once they were out of the factory and free of the union, they had nothing good to say about the union. They only joined in the first place to be certain they wouldn't be ostracized for being non-union. It was somewhat like 'team' mentality, and not unlike 0bamaland, where groups of people too dumb to think for themselves are swayed by their master while they slave away, not having a clue what self respect and responsibility mean.
AND of a whole 'nother level of dumbness is that office worker who thinks the benefits package he or she enjoys dropped out of thin air because the company valued their skill-set so much more.
It is a well known adjunctive among corporate entities that the compensation package for managerial types is based upon the wages negotiated by Unions for it's members. Every one of us in management used to cross our fingers for the union to do well in bargaining talks as it mean't an immediate adjustment to our package across the board.
How stupid are people to believe they are that special they just deserve better than their compatriots.
You do know that some skilled trades are indentured longer than the doctors shoving a finger up your butt but nevertheless you insist on categorizing all union members as stupid drones.
I'll go out there on a limb right now and state without equivocation that regardless of what your particular skillset is; there is some teenager in India or Pakistan that does it better, faster & is prepared to do it for HALF what you are.
Be careful where you throw that banana peel it just might be there for you to slide on the stairway to unemployment on tomorrow.
Aah, so that's the driving force behind union hatred; jealousy! Finally a glimmer of that old green monster comes shining through.
You do realize that GM AGREED to those terms. You also must realize that had they funded the pension as they were contractually obligated to do so; it would not be drawing from their profits on a continual basis but rather the fund would be self sustaining as the law requires other private pension funds to be.
You do realize that GM was in conflict with the legal requirements as would apply to private pension plans when they declared that it was all the fault of those Unions while flying their corporate jets to beg for your taxpayer cash in complete denial of any wrongdoing with their malfeasance of managing that company into the ground.
You also must realize that for them to NOT have funded that plan as they should have during times of larger profits, took government complicity to allow them to defer filing an actuarial assumption in legally required terms of frequency. Had they been in compliance with the laws governing the funding requirements for private pension funds you would not have heard whisper one about "legacy costs" or any other buzzwords coming out of GM or Washington and you'd have no one to blame your jealousy on.
You're all too willing to drink the corporate Kool-Aid with acceptance of their mantra "it's all the fault of the Unions and nothing to do with our mis-managment."
That particular blame game is for fools and the ignorant only.
I did not agree to it, so I spend my car dollars elsewhere. Jealosy has nothing to do with it. I am 50 years old and have NEVER bought an American car.
Talk about ignorance. It is all but impossible to fire someone from a union job. Have you ever looked through a union contract?
...
The fact that I have fired people who belong to unions undercuts your contention that "it is all but impossible to fire someone from a union job."
<Talk about ignorance>
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