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Old 05-04-2013, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,711,170 times
Reputation: 5689

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
It should be. And if companies need more proof of your competence in specific areas you should be able to demonstrate it by passing an exam to get a license or qualification. There is no good reason why anyone should be required to spend 4-10 years after high school, pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, undergo indoctrination, and go into massive debt just to show they are qualified for an entry level job. In the internet age, college is largely a scam. It is a jobs program for the elite and a means of molding the populace into PC conformity.
I like your contrarian angle here (you are asking a good questions, but the bolded betrays your biases). In the era of community college, technical schools, and public education (including online), you can get a strong degree for a good value. The notion that college indoctrinates you is false. Most professors are professional, and the benefits of a higher education last a lifetime, far after you leave college. It changes the context and perspective to which you react to the world, which opens many intellectual doors. I am not saying it is the only way to do it, but it is generally a good one. Another is to travel and live abroad. I would say that my times abroad, being a foreigner learning a new language and looking at how others live their lives was another tremendously eye opening experience that must be experienced to be fully appreciated.

As an analogy. Imagine yourself explaining music to someone who is deaf. They would not appreciate what you are saying, because they have no frame of reference. It is similar with the uneducated.

However, I will grant your point about the changing nature of learning in the internet age. I still think higher education is a great asset, but it is not so cut and dried anymore. Certainly a good discussion.

Last edited by Fiddlehead; 05-04-2013 at 11:03 AM..
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,710,076 times
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Quote:
The notion that college indoctrinates you is false.
I'm not saying colleges are sinister mind control camps, but I personally experienced PC indoctrination in college and I've read of countless examples of this happening.
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Old 05-04-2013, 01:33 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,904,362 times
Reputation: 7313
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
I'm not saying colleges are sinister mind control camps, but I personally experienced PC indoctrination in college and I've read of countless examples of this happening.
After one has experienced classes with several dozen professors, it is common sense they would have come across some liberal, some conservative, and human nature is such that we recall the group we personally find the most over the top. While we conveniently forget the 90% we found to be focused on teaching, not dogma.
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Old 05-04-2013, 01:44 PM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,141,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
I'm not saying colleges are sinister mind control camps, but I personally experienced PC indoctrination in college and I've read of countless examples of this happening.
Good lord! And you made it out safely??? Good man! Good man!

Me, I'm more worried about the tens of millions of children who are forced into spiritual indoctrination of the most ridiculous variety every Sunday across the nation then with young adults who encounter the odd, over-the-top teacher who, at best, makes them reconsider some of their assumptions and, at worst, becomes an annoyance for 50 minutes for four months out of their lives.
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Old 05-04-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,711,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
After one has experienced classes with several dozen professors, it is common sense they would have come across some liberal, some conservative, and human nature is such that we recall the group we personally find the most over the top. While we conveniently forget the 90% we found to be focused on teaching, not dogma.
Very true. The strong emotional experiences probably stick in the mind.
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Old 05-04-2013, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,711,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
Uh, those degrees are still idiotic. Just less idiotic than sitting on your ass watching TV for 4 years.
Ironically, I enjoyed the professors most who had this of delivery. Yogi Berra could not have said it better.
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:19 PM
 
Location: 77441
3,160 posts, read 4,352,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
This is why I roll my eyes at the idiot posts here about "worthless" degrees that should be banned at universities, because I promise you--those liberal arts majors are still finding decent jobs a heck of a lot faster, and making much more money over time, than

someone with a High School Diploma ever will.

A college degree is always a good investment.

thats the problem with absolute statements.
they make you look foolish..

I have a high school diploma.
I also have made over $200k a year for a lot of years.
you should have this conversation with all the Engineers I work for whos hourly rate is less than mine
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:57 PM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,175,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bily Lovec View Post
thats the problem with absolute statements.
they make you look foolish..

I have a high school diploma.
I also have made over $200k a year for a lot of years.
you should have this conversation with all the Engineers I work for whos hourly rate is less than mine
And you're an exception to the rule. Good for you! For the rest of the world, it doesn't usually work that way, although I will say that owning your own successful company would be one way around not having a degree and still making a comfortable income. Many people--even really intelligent people--don't have what it takes to be a business owner at all, let alone a successful one, so that limits the pool considerable from the start.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:43 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,942 posts, read 22,401,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
??? Shouldn't my 3.9 high school GPA (top 5% of my class) and 1300+ SAT (the old version where max is 1600) prove I'm not an idiot?
But it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
It should be. And if companies need more proof of your competence in specific areas you should be able to demonstrate it by passing an exam to get a license or qualification. There is no good reason why anyone should be required to spend 4-10 years after high school, pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, undergo indoctrination, and go into massive debt just to show they are qualified for an entry level job. In the internet age, college is largely a scam. It is a jobs program for the elite and a means of molding the populace into PC conformity.
And - unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way.
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Old 05-04-2013, 06:33 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,904,362 times
Reputation: 7313
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
It should be. And if companies need more proof of your competence in specific areas you should be able to demonstrate it by passing an exam to get a license or qualification. There is no good reason why anyone should be required to spend 4-10 years after high school, pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, undergo indoctrination, and go into massive debt just to show they are qualified for an entry level job. In the internet age, college is largely a scam. It is a jobs program for the elite and a means of molding the populace into PC conformity.
More positions require a degree than ever, and despite not following your advice in this post, corporate profits from US operations are at historically high levels. In order to maintain a standard of living, we will simply need to become better educated and trained than ever, as billions more are yearning for the opportunities we take for granted. Competition makes the strong stronger, and the weak weaker. Only a fool dislikes competition.
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