I'm Really Tired of Anti-Welfare BS (bailout, against, own, businesses)

[xray731]

Originally Posted by soanchorless

After all these posts!? I admitted long ago, but said it is overstated. Just because YOU have seen more abuse than I have, what makes your anecdotes more legitimate than mine, after I have been working and living with poor people all my life, including in the inner city? Why must you be so quick to judge my own observations!?

Child support EBT can pay for whatever a person wants, not what the government dictates. If a single parent pays all the bills with their paycheck, incuding everything for the child, there is no reason they can't pay for luxuries they want with the child support. Again, people talking about stuff they don't even know about. GOOGLE IT to see what EBTs can be used for. And yes, I know about these programs and how they work because at one point in time, I thought the abuse was rampant like a good republican I was! Then I worked with Quakers/charities and I began to be introduced to how these myths are wrong.

I don't need to defend who I say I am on here to you. I know who I am. You are the one who apparently thought I hate Catholic schools when I said no such thing.

And regarding taxes, I was telling the man, who asserted that the government holds a gun to his head, is getting no such gun pointed at his head. End of story.

So much for your closing the topic! LOL

Give me a frigging break - in none of your posts did you say you saw any abuse and disregarded any claims others made because we couldn't prove it.

Maybe I have more morals - but child support is to support the child not buy beer and cigs for the custodial parent. If they want to buy luxeries after they've paid all their bills you do not use the EBT card with the child support - be smart and buy your luxeries with your own money not the childs.

It seems that instead of making decisions using your own brains - you tend to go with the flow and believe whatever the group you're with is preaching at the time.

And it's not an anecdote - these are observations or life experiences. PEACE!!

[petch751]

Why should I bust my ass to pay out my ass in taxes. I am not going to bust my ass and take on the responsibility of more employees to get taxed out the ass. ... F that!

Yea, or I could fire my employees instead.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by FancyFeast5000

I'm absolutely amazed at the very large number of people on this board who claim they own a small business. Yeah, right. The people I know who own small businesses are working at their businesses very long hours and not arguing with anonymous posters on the internet.

Which is it. Obama says we didn't build that.



I'm waiting for Obama and Elizabeth Warren to build it for me.

[TXStrat]

There is nothing wrong at all with the preservation of a social safety net. There should be a system in place to provide for those honestly needing help. The problem people have is when that safety net is turned into a hammock. There is absolutely no question that there are people out there abusing the system. There are more than enough examples of waste, fraud, and outright abuse out there.

The outrage here should be directed at those persons that abuse the system at the expense of the very people that actually need it the most, not towards those that want to reform the system to make work as intended and reduce the ability to abuse the system.

[derosterreich]

Originally Posted by soanchorless

Well I am throwing myself into the fire with this post, but I have seen about the last inaccurate and fabricated "Welfare Queen" post than I can handle.

This anti welfare attitude and villainization of the poor is WRONG.

I lived in poverty most of my childhood. My mother left my abusive father when I was one and worked two jobs to survive. Even with those two jobs, she would have qualified for welfare and food stamps. But she was too proud to do so. Thus, I lived on ramen noodles and hot dogs for most of my childhood. I was underweight and malnourished. There were more times than I care to remember that I went to bed hungry. The only decent meal I got was at school...when my mother could afford it. She also refused reduced or free lunches, which she would have qualified for. Usually, I got a PB&J and carrots and was starving by dinner time. Then I got a small serving of hamburger helper. I also didn't see doctors for most of my childhood because my mother refused to use medicaid. I am still dealing with health issues due to that.

Blame your mother for not providing adequate care for you. You are still alive in 2013 which means you aren't that unhealthy, and being poor doesn't inherently make you disease riddled and malnourished.

Again, stats are stats and the fattest people are the poorest. This means they intake massive amounts of calories (energy) and do not exert this energy which leads to fattening of the body. You can buy veggies, cottage cheese, chicken breasts, etc which are very inexpensive. Those are choices that even rich people do not opt for which again is a preference.

My SO's parents were the same. They were poor and could not afford very much food, but refused food stamps. His father gardened and that was what they ate most of the time. At one point, his father made my SO eat his own vomit after he threw up a pepper because they were so desperate to not waste food.

That's child abuse because the parent is a failure. It has nothing to do with being poor, but being a bad parent.

And the reason for this and why so many children are currently going hungry (or without decent shelter or health care) in this country is because there are still tons of people who are too proud to take assistance when they need it. And it because of this prevalent attitude that people who use government assistance are worthless!!

They aren't going hungry, again you have no facts on your side you are merely using anecdotal information and extrapolating it into the entire population as fact which is what people who act purely on emotion do to rationalize their beliefs.

And with this, there are people who would qualify for assistance, but choose not to do so simply because they are too proud and don't want to be "one of those people." Then they are resentful of the people who actually take advantage of the benefits they are LEGALLY entitled to and use that to push an agenda against welfare and spread myths about people who use welfare.

As they should, I applaud people who fight through the trials and tribulations of life to better themselves and family. It is a learning experience, and one which I was taught by a modest upbringing in which my parents sacrificed eating peasant-type foods so they could move, save, etc for a better future. This is where you are showing your feeling of entitlement to others resources instead of providing for yourself.

God forbid you spend $15 on a fishing pole and catch your own food? Maybe a hunting license or a small indoor or outdoor garden to supplement? Problem solving is part of being a human, begging like a dog or even worse stealing like a Jackal from others is primal, savage and uncivilized.

IT IS WRONG. You are helping to perpetuate suffering, including your own.

Also: don't give me the old, "poor people are fat in America!!" I would have been fat eating hot dogs, ramen noodles, PB&Js, and hamburger helper too if I had a different body type and metabolism. I would have still been undernourished.

You're beliefs are wrong. You are promoting a lifestyle of victimization and parasitic living, which is the opposite of what the country originally stood for. People are compassionate and will help those in need, but the difference between people who would like to optionally help people and forcing others to work for your basic needs is unethical, immoral and devolves society.

Did you ever ask your mother why she decided to have a child with an abusive man which she willingly married? Do you hold your mother accountable for failing to provide the basic tenants of human needs?

Maybe the perfect storm ensued and she was truly ambushed by this guy, but time and time again people woefully agreed to this type of life by engaging in behavior that leads to these results.

[Wapasha]

Originally Posted by soanchorless

Well I am throwing myself into the fire with this post, but I have seen about the last inaccurate and fabricated "Welfare Queen" post than I can handle.

This anti welfare attitude and villainization of the poor is WRONG.

I lived in poverty most of my childhood. My mother left my abusive father when I was one and worked two jobs to survive. Even with those two jobs, she would have qualified for welfare and food stamps. But she was too proud to do so. Thus, I lived on ramen noodles and hot dogs for most of my childhood. I was underweight and malnourished. There were more times than I care to remember that I went to bed hungry. The only decent meal I got was at school...when my mother could afford it. She also refused reduced or free lunches, which she would have qualified for. Usually, I got a PB&J and carrots and was starving by dinner time. Then I got a small serving of hamburger helper. I also didn't see doctors for most of my childhood because my mother refused to use medicaid. I am still dealing with health issues due to that.

My SO's parents were the same. They were poor and could not afford very much food, but refused food stamps. His father gardened and that was what they ate most of the time. At one point, his father made my SO eat his own vomit after he threw up a pepper because they were so desperate to not waste food.

And the reason for this and why so many children are currently going hungry (or without decent shelter or health care) in this country is because there are still tons of people who are too proud to take assistance when they need it. And it because of this prevalent attitude that people who use government assistance are worthless!!

And with this, there are people who would qualify for assistance, but choose not to do so simply because they are too proud and don't want to be "one of those people." Then they are resentful of the people who actually take advantage of the benefits they are LEGALLY entitled to and use that to push an agenda against welfare and spread myths about people who use welfare.

IT IS WRONG. You are helping to perpetuate suffering, including your own.

Also: don't give me the old, "poor people are fat in America!!" I would have been fat eating hot dogs, ramen noodles, PB&Js, and hamburger helper too if I had a different body type and metabolism. I would have still been undernourished.

Your mother sounds like mine; I remember as a teenager not getting enough to eat, most of the time. My mother was too proud to accept assistance because she did not want to be associated with the people abusing the system. We had families around us where mom was unmarried and popping out bastard kids, and these women never bothered to work.

We were lucky I suppose, in that we always had a garden and supplemented our food, and we canned food in the fall. My welfare neighbors had enough yard to grow their own garden, but they never bothered.

These welfare and supplemental food programs are for poor families like the one you lived in during your childhood. The problem people have is that politicians and bureaucrats have expanded these programs to cover an ever widening group of people who don't really need the assistance, or the people refuse to help themselves and we end up with welfare queens gaming the system, or even worse, criminal fraud and abuse of the system.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by TXStrat

There is nothing wrong at all with the preservation of a social safety net. There should be a system in place to provide for those honestly needing help. The problem people have is when that safety net is turned into a hammock. There is absolutely no question that there are people out there abusing the system. There are more than enough examples of waste, fraud, and outright abuse out there.

The outrage here should be directed at those persons that abuse the system at the expense of the very people that actually need it the most, not towards those that want to reform the system to make work as intended and reduce the ability to abuse the system.

And Obama promoted outrage toward other working Americans. So doctors, small businesses are demonized and grouped in with the uber rich. Damn, I wish I was a Buffet. Obama was able to pull it off and his supporters supported him in his attacks against us.

Obama convince you that we are the enemy. In the end it was YOU who decided that we are the enemy. And then you expect us to sympathize with you.

I guess we are supposed to "stand down".

[texdav]

If I were the Op I'd be mad at people who abuse the sytem and cliamed welfare because they don't want to work.Its lie disbailty which if faked only harms those who need the ehlp and are truely disabled.get mad at people who create the imgine by their actions.

[petch751]

Exactly. The abusers are actually taking from people who truly need. If people are so mad about the connotations collecting welfare holds you would think they would be mad at the abusers.

[Taratova]

Originally Posted by soanchorless

Good point. One reason for that is that large corporations already get subsidies that the small businesses do not get. Of course they are going to have a high risk of failing when they are not getting a free handout while other competing businesses are. And those other businesses are getting tax breaks and cheap labor because they outsource jobs. Should we be using our tax money to support huge corpartions that rarely create middle class jobs in America or spend it on small business owners who will hire Americans, pay all of their taxes here, and help naturally redistribute wealth naturally by not getting huge and amassing enourmous profits for themselves?

Also, our public schools do not actually teach or condition people to become successful entrepreneurs. They teach people how to get a job. So I see that as part of the problem as well.

I will tell you that not everyone is up and up on starting a business. Foreigners say "America is good" for a reason.. One fellow who did some work for me told me how he scammed the bank.. He got a business loan for over 100 thousand bucks.. took 10 thousand into his so called business.. he then went and bought a home with the rest of the loan money, paid cash for the home in Florida.. then declared bankruptcy. He loves America..