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Old 05-09-2013, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Montgomery Village
4,112 posts, read 4,466,434 times
Reputation: 1711

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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/07/us...ted=2&src=recg

Does anyone see what is wrong with this situation? It seems we haven't learned.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718
Well Americans want to be bused to the farm and want training.
Immigrants somehow find their way there and know how to plant seeds and starts.

I see some sense of entitlement there.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Montgomery Village
4,112 posts, read 4,466,434 times
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You think wanting training is a sense of entitlement? Wanting simple workers' rights is entitlement? These were the same farms that claimed that they couldn't find anyone.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:28 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,679,221 times
Reputation: 8798
Quote:
Housing
Although there are good examples of improving farmworker housing conditions, such as the Farmworker Housing Program in Washington,25 for the most part farmworker housing is often substandard or non-existent.26 A study conducted in 2008 in North Carolina found that about 89% of the migrant labor camps had more than one violation against the Migrant Housing Act of North Carolina.27 This same study reported that up to 78% of residents felt they lived in a crowded living space.28 Another study conducted in 2007 in the Coachella Valley of California concluded that 2% of those surveyed reported having living situations not meant for human habitation (such as the outdoors, cars, trucks, or vans parked in streets or parking lots, or inhabited converted garages). This number increased to 30% amongst respondents who were migratory farmworkers in the same area.29
http://www.ncfh.org/docs/fs-Facts%20...armworkers.pdf

So migrant farm workers are "entitled" to live close to where the jobs are because their desperation drives them to live in "substandard or non-existent" housing.


Farm owners exploit that desperation, placing the success of their business above the obligation to offer fair wages and working conditions. An American seeking such work would have no choice but either to live in inhospitable conditions or to incur increasing debt because their compensation is unfairly low. To expect either is an expression of nothing but abject and callous disregard for others, and egoistic partisan perspective.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:30 AM
 
17,290 posts, read 29,349,509 times
Reputation: 8691
Ha!

Well, I support whatever it takes to get the neo-slavers to start offering better working conditions to attract, hire and retain American workers over imported serfs that they claim they absolutely **must** have because.... um.... well, do you want to pay $19 for lettuce?!
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by btsilver View Post
You think wanting training is a sense of entitlement? Wanting simple workers' rights is entitlement? These were the same farms that claimed that they couldn't find anyone.
They are doing better than your average burger flipper making min wage.

From the OP link:

They are generally guaranteed a minimum wage of just over $9 an hour, but are paid per piece and can boost those wages by increasing their productivity.

The question then becomes..How much more are you willing to pay at the supermarket so they can be bussed to the farm and have proper training on how to pick fruit ?
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:38 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,679,221 times
Reputation: 8798
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Well, I support whatever it takes to get the neo-slavers to start offering better working conditions to attract, hire and retain American workers over imported serfs that they claim they absolutely **must** have because.... um.... well, do you want to pay $19 for lettuce?!
The reality is that it wouldn't actually affect the price of lettuce as much as your comment tried to make it sound. Regardless, if that's how much it costs to grow and distribute lettuce grown by workers treated fairly and humanely, then that's how much it should cost. Truffles are expensive because of the labor involved and the fact that desperation hasn't had its impact on undercutting the compensation that labor demands. Food doesn't taste quite as good if you are forced to face up to the fact of how much your pleasure is the result of unfair suffering you're implicitly inflicting on others. I know very well how much people are quick to inure themselves against the reality of what they're eating, to gird themselves against the self-repudiation for being a co-conspirator in the suffering of others. So the expectation is that injecting fairness and humanity into agriculture will prompt changes in our diet toward items for which there is less of a misery discount paid by the workers who cultivate and harvest it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
The reality is that it wouldn't actually affect the price of lettuce as much as your comment tried to make it sound. Regardless, if that's how much it costs to grow and distribute lettuce grown by workers treated fairly and humanely, then that's how much it should cost. Truffles are expensive because of the labor involved and the fact that desperation hasn't had its impact on undercutting the compensation that labor demands. Food doesn't taste quite as good if you are forced to face up to the fact of how much your pleasure is the result of unfair suffering you're implicitly inflicting on others. I know very well how much people are quick to inure themselves against the reality of what they're eating, to gird themselves against the self-repudiation for being a co-conspirator in the suffering of others. So the expectation is that injecting fairness and humanity into agriculture will prompt changes in our diet toward items for which there is less of a misery discount paid by the workers who cultivate and harvest it.
Wouldn't do squat for the fruit trucked in from Mexico.
Prices have to be competitive or no one will buy the US grown ones.
Lettuce is lettuce and consumers will buy the cheapest one.

Got to keep that in mind.
Globalism..keeping first world counties racing to the bottom.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:46 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,679,221 times
Reputation: 8798
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Wouldn't do squat for the fruit trucked in from Mexico.
A separate problem, which probably needs to be addressed as well. We've got the same problem with a whole mess of different things, that we Americans used to make for ourselves, but we've started buying from elsewhere because they make them with what is basically slave labor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Prices have to be competitive or no one will buy the US grown ones.
We will have to be smarter than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Globalism..keeping first world counties racing to the bottom.
Are you expressing that as a problem? or relishing the thought?
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
A separate problem, which probably needs to be addressed as well. We've got the same problem with a whole mess of different things, that we Americans used to make for ourselves, but we've started buying from elsewhere because they make them with what is basically slave labor.

We will have to be smarter than that.

Are you expressing that as a problem? or relishing the thought?

That is what globalism is all about.
Third world countries rise while first world countries fall and we will meet somewhere in the middle.
I've been watching the effects of globalism since the mid 90's when it hit my field..sofware engineering.
I'm past caring because it's too late to turn back the clock.
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