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And yet, carbon dioxide really does absorb infrared radiation.
CO2 absorbs at 2.7 microns, 4.3 microns and 15 microns.
Since Earth does not emit Black Body Radiation at 2.7 microns, we only have to look at 4.3 microns and 15 microns, and we'll apply Wien's Law to both.
Wien's Law T (Temperature) = b / wavelength in micrometers, where "b" is a constant equal to 2,900 um-K.
T = 2,900 um-K / 15 um = 193°K = -112°F
T = 2,900 um-K / 4.3 um = 673.9°K = 753°F
What we can infer from science is that 4.3 microns has far greater energy than 15 microns, however the amount of Black Body Radiation Earth emits at 4.3 microns is minuscule, as this link proves:
Water vapor is the primary absorber of incoming radiation and the largest and most significant reflector of out-going radiation.
Water vapor typically averages 13 TRILLION tons and by weight is far greater than CO2: 0.33% H2O vs 0.04% CO2.
In terms of relative humidity, Earth is about 75% at ground level, decreasing to 45% at about 5,000 meters. That means water vapor is concentrated near the Earth, unlike CO2.
Water vapor absorbs at 5.9, 6.5, 6.9, 7.2, 7.6, 8.2 and 9.6 microns.
Wien's Law:
T = 2,900 um-K / 5.9 um = 491°K = 424°F
T = 2,900 um-K / 6.5 um = 446°K = 343°F
T = 2,900 um-K / 6.9 um = 420°K = 296°F
T = 2,900 um-K / 7.2 um = 402°K = 263°F
T = 2,900 um-K / 7.6 um = 381°K = 226°F
T = 2,900 um-K / 8.2 um = 353°K = 175°F
T = 2,900 um-K / 9.6 um = 302°K = 83°F
As you can see from the graph and from Wien's Law, water vapor is far more powerful than CO2 could ever hope to be and generates far more energy than CO2 ever will.
CO2 absorbs at 2.7 microns, 4.3 microns and 15 microns.
Since Earth does not emit Black Body Radiation at 2.7 microns, we only have to look at 4.3 microns and 15 microns, and we'll apply Wien's Law to both.
Wien's Law T (Temperature) = b / wavelength in micrometers, where "b" is a constant equal to 2,900 um-K.
T = 2,900 um-K / 15 um = 193°K = -112°F
T = 2,900 um-K / 4.3 um = 673.9°K = 753°F
What we can infer from science is that 4.3 microns has far greater energy than 15 microns, however the amount of Black Body Radiation Earth emits at 4.3 microns is minuscule, as this link proves:
Water vapor is the primary absorber of incoming radiation and the largest and most significant reflector of out-going radiation.
Water vapor typically averages 13 TRILLION tons and by weight is far greater than CO2: 0.33% H2O vs 0.04% CO2.
In terms of relative humidity, Earth is about 75% at ground level, decreasing to 45% at about 5,000 meters. That means water vapor is concentrated near the Earth, unlike CO2.
Water vapor absorbs at 5.9, 6.5, 6.9, 7.2, 7.6, 8.2 and 9.6 microns.
As you can see from the graph and from Wien's Law, water vapor is far more powerful than CO2 could ever hope to be and generates far more energy than CO2 ever will.
Stop with the strawmen already! Nobody said that higher CO2 is bad for plants. Nobody said that higher CO2 poses a health risk for humans. Stick to the subject - climate change.
Okay, let's do that then.
Tell us what the earth climate norm should be then, for each continent, each hemisphere, or plot it out for the entire planet. Then tell us why we cannot deviate from those numbers at all, and why if we ever do, why is it the fault of human-induced CO2.
There is a lot of copy and pasting to be expected in topics like this one. People have probably found that they have repeated themselves may times over. So, after the third or fourth time, they just copy what they spent hours putting together and paste it into notepad.
The earth is approximately 6,000 years old, in accordance with Bible chronology, and there is some very basic science that shows this to be the case. See the video below for an overview of some of the major problems with the theory of an old earth. So no, in fact, the title of your thread is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90
The OP presupposes that the earth is more than 3 million years old. How could that be the case when the amount of helium in atmosphere rules out the possibility that the earth could be more than 2 million years old?
Oh come on now, you can believe in God without having to take everything written in the bible so literally. You are an intelligent guy, yet just six months of being a born again Christian, you are throwing away everything you ever learnt & believed in. You are ignoring basic science facts & now you honestly believe the earth is only 6000 years old? I don't buy it. You know this is complete nonsense. It is ok to question things in the bible, it is only a book of stories written & re-written countless times after all...
Tell us what the earth climate norm should be then, for each continent, each hemisphere, or plot it out for the entire planet. Then tell us why we cannot deviate from those numbers at all, and why if we ever do, why is it the fault of human-induced CO2.
1) there is no absolute "norm". Typically people reference the average temperatures from 1850 - 1950 as a baseline for comparison.
2) I never said we cannot or should not deviate from those averages
3) The contribution of human activities to climate change has been well documented by experts in the field of climatology and atmospheric physics. I'm sure you have heard it all before, but here is a nice summary if you're curious: https://climate.nasa.gov/causes/
AGW is real, despite the noise from the willfully ignorant.
But honestly, how are we going to stop it?
Solar and wind can help a little, but they won’t bring emissions to zero...not even close. Germany tried it, and it didn’t work. They also have some of the highest electricity rates in mainland Europe.
Nuclear power could reduce emissions from the electricity sector, but many environmentalists (the most likely to be worried about AGW) oppose it. NIMBYism itself would probably prevent the expansion of nuclear power.
Any effort to reduce emissions would have to be global. Even if we Americans somehow miraculously brought our emissions to zero, emissions from the third world would keep rising.
Water vapor is the primary absorber of incoming radiation and the largest and most significant reflector of out-going radiation. .... Water vapor is the driver of climate, not CO2.
Your analysis omits the most important factor: water vapor precipitates, CO2 does not.
For a given average temperature on Earth, the maximum amount of water vapor in the air is limited by the vapor pressure. If evaporation exceeds that limit, the excess falls as rain. That's why water vapor cannot cause a runaway greenhouse event -- additional water vapor uptake is self-regulated through clouds and rain.
CO2 does not precipitate. Once it's in the air it's more or less permanent. As CO2 increases, the average temperature increases, allowing the maximum vapor pressure to rise with it. The capacity of the atmosphere to hold water vapor increases. Thus water vapor magnifies the effect of CO2 increases.
CO2 is the leader that drives global warming. Water vapor is a follower that magnifies it through feedback and modulation.
AGW is real, despite the noise from the willfully ignorant.
But honestly, how are we going to stop it?
Solar and wind can help a little, but they won’t bring emissions to zero...not even close. Germany tried it, and it didn’t work. They also have some of the highest electricity rates in mainland Europe.
Nuclear power could reduce emissions from the electricity sector, but many environmentalists (the most likely to be worried about AGW) oppose it. NIMBYism itself would probably prevent the expansion of nuclear power.
Any effort to reduce emissions would have to be global. Even if we Americans somehow miraculously brought our emissions to zero, emissions from the third world would keep rising.
Hmm...doubled the CO2 in the atmosphere and we have to make up a pretend temperature record to even claim an unprovable and highly speculative 1-2 degrees of warming over a century?
Not buying it.
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I don't buy it. You know this is complete nonsense. It is ok to question things in the bible, it is only a book of stories written & re-written countless times after all...