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Old 05-14-2013, 08:55 AM
 
14,944 posts, read 8,558,182 times
Reputation: 7361

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkBlog View Post
If you read that sentence closely you wouldn't have a problem with it.

"It would also be good if conservatives stopped talking about economic liberty as if it’s the only thing necessary to make a good society,

The ONLY thing. He's not saying economic liberty isn't important, nor is he even saying it shouldn't be the first priority. He's just saying there are other things that are important to shaping a good society, such as strong neighborhoods and communities and other local associations.
I did read it closely .... so now let me explain it to you, since you seem to totally miss the underlying implications of this "statement".

The statement suggests that there is a singular focus on economics from the republicans, inferring that there should be more attention placed on other things that are important to creating a "good society", like the left wing democrats do? The reality is, there are three major problems with that statement. 1) economics is not the only thing republicans focus on, so that is a false argument to begin with ... 2) poor economic conditions may very well be the root cause of many, if not most of those other issues the statement suggests is needed for creating a "good society", and 3) it is for the people to decide what defines a "good society", and not the democrat or republican politicos.

This deeper level of analysis of the statement reveals the inference of government being the judge of, and responsible for facilitating the creation of that "good society", though there is no definition of what actually constitutes this "good society" he's referring to. The obvious problem there is that what one person may consider a good society might be the antithesis of what you or I might consider a good society, and I CAN PROMISE YOU that whatever form the government's idea of a "good society" might take, it won't be favorable to you or I, but will reflect the best interests of the government. The government's ideal "good society" would most likely reflect a highly structured and controlled and OBEDIENT society, with individual liberty drastically regulated by government. This is PRECISELY WHY thinking people who can see past their own noses totally reject this collectivist-statist-authoritarian model espoused by the left. It is a total "bill of goods" being sold, and intelligent people who value liberty and the founding principles of our nation are not buying it.

Perhaps the biggest mystery to me is why people like you don't recognize these facts immediately. It's really rather obvious, and is not at all rocket science. Why so many on the left find it so difficult to think beyond simple surface analysis of issues is just inexplicable. You folks are always at the ready to embrace the box with the pretty bow, without ever considering the contents inside. Yet, according to the left, they are the most intelligent and well educated group in comparison to the right? Nope .... that's just another of the many symptoms of self delusion suffered by those who's brains have been re-wired in reverse.

The author of that article from which this statement came from, made many other statements that reveal his bias and favoritism of "collectivist" idealism. YOU also reveal your collectivist leaning, even though you are trying to present yourself as neutral.

What is abundantly clear from my experience, and beyond any reasonable doubt, is that left wingers are incapable of honesty. Whether the lies they promote are intentional acts to deliberately deceive others, or just reflective of the depth to which they themselves have been deceived, is difficult to say.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:27 AM
 
48 posts, read 44,977 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I did read it closely .... so now let me explain it to you, since you seem to totally miss the underlying implications of this "statement".

The statement suggests that there is a singular focus on economics from the republicans, inferring that there should be more attention placed on other things that are important to creating a "good society", like the left wing democrats do? The reality is, there are three major problems with that statement. 1) economics is not the only thing republicans focus on, so that is a false argument to begin with ... 2) poor economic conditions may very well be the root cause of many, if not most of those other issues the statement suggests is needed for creating a "good society", and 3) it is for the people to decide what defines a "good society", and not the democrat or republican politicos.

This deeper level of analysis of the statement reveals the inference of government being the judge of, and responsible for facilitating the creation of that "good society", though there is no definition of what actually constitutes this "good society" he's referring to. The obvious problem there is that what one person may consider a good society might be the antithesis of what you or I might consider a good society, and I CAN PROMISE YOU that whatever form the government's idea of a "good society" might take, it won't be favorable to you or I, but will reflect the best interests of the government. The government's ideal "good society" would most likely reflect a highly structured and controlled and OBEDIENT society, with individual liberty drastically regulated by government. This is PRECISELY WHY thinking people who can see past their own noses totally reject this collectivist-statist-authoritarian model espoused by the left. It is a total "bill of goods" being sold, and intelligent people who value liberty and the founding principles of our nation are not buying it.

Perhaps the biggest mystery to me is why people like you don't recognize these facts immediately. It's really rather obvious, and is not at all rocket science. Why so many on the left find it so difficult to think beyond simple surface analysis of issues is just inexplicable. You folks are always at the ready to embrace the box with the pretty bow, without ever considering the contents inside. Yet, according to the left, they are the most intelligent and well educated group in comparison to the right? Nope .... that's just another of the many symptoms of self delusion suffered by those who's brains have been re-wired in reverse.

The author of that article from which this statement came from, made many other statements that reveal his bias and favoritism of "collectivist" idealism. YOU also reveal your collectivist leaning, even though you are trying to present yourself as neutral.

What is abundantly clear from my experience, and beyond any reasonable doubt, is that left wingers are incapable of honesty. Whether the lies they promote are intentional acts to deliberately deceive others, or just reflective of the depth to which they themselves have been deceived, is difficult to say.

Which statements? Maybe he's pro-family and pro-community, but he certainly isn't pro-big government.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:39 AM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,379,720 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyPB View Post

"The shaping society in a way that is just and ordered, where the poor are taken care of and the lonely can feel included and a sense of self-worth, will only happen when individuals feel a duty to take care of more than just themselves, and have the means to do it through more than just government and politics."
Are you suggesting that this is a novel idea?

There are reasons why I bowl alone.

The internet has replaced the grapevine.

The new system makes it much more difficult to get away with slander.

We live in a snitch society enveloped in a climate of fear. (This was all contrived, planned and executed by the Government.)

Not to mention the omnipotent eye and illegal activities of the Government.

Practically all court proceedings are Star Chamber, these days.

Change the law so that any person can videotape any court proceeding at any time.

Let's consider getting back to constitutional law, shall we?

Last edited by Nonarchist; 05-14-2013 at 11:12 AM..
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:40 PM
 
20 posts, read 17,281 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I did read it closely .... so now let me explain it to you, since you seem to totally miss the underlying implications of this "statement".

The statement suggests that there is a singular focus on economics from the republicans, inferring that there should be more attention placed on other things that are important to creating a "good society", like the left wing democrats do? The reality is, there are three major problems with that statement. 1) economics is not the only thing republicans focus on, so that is a false argument to begin with ... 2) poor economic conditions may very well be the root cause of many, if not most of those other issues the statement suggests is needed for creating a "good society", and 3) it is for the people to decide what defines a "good society", and not the democrat or republican politicos.

This deeper level of analysis of the statement reveals the inference of government being the judge of, and responsible for facilitating the creation of that "good society", though there is no definition of what actually constitutes this "good society" he's referring to. The obvious problem there is that what one person may consider a good society might be the antithesis of what you or I might consider a good society, and I CAN PROMISE YOU that whatever form the government's idea of a "good society" might take, it won't be favorable to you or I, but will reflect the best interests of the government. The government's ideal "good society" would most likely reflect a highly structured and controlled and OBEDIENT society, with individual liberty drastically regulated by government. This is PRECISELY WHY thinking people who can see past their own noses totally reject this collectivist-statist-authoritarian model espoused by the left. It is a total "bill of goods" being sold, and intelligent people who value liberty and the founding principles of our nation are not buying it.

Perhaps the biggest mystery to me is why people like you don't recognize these facts immediately. It's really rather obvious, and is not at all rocket science. Why so many on the left find it so difficult to think beyond simple surface analysis of issues is just inexplicable. You folks are always at the ready to embrace the box with the pretty bow, without ever considering the contents inside. Yet, according to the left, they are the most intelligent and well educated group in comparison to the right? Nope .... that's just another of the many symptoms of self delusion suffered by those who's brains have been re-wired in reverse.

The author of that article from which this statement came from, made many other statements that reveal his bias and favoritism of "collectivist" idealism. YOU also reveal your collectivist leaning, even though you are trying to present yourself as neutral.

What is abundantly clear from my experience, and beyond any reasonable doubt, is that left wingers are incapable of honesty. Whether the lies they promote are intentional acts to deliberately deceive others, or just reflective of the depth to which they themselves have been deceived, is difficult to say.
More community, less government. Thats all the article was saying. How can you argue with that?
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:58 PM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,379,720 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyPB View Post
More community, less government. Thats all the article was saying. How can you argue with that?
Just c'mon over and give me a big hug, woodja?
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:44 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,512,309 times
Reputation: 18520
Ask the people of the Roanoke & Jamestown Settlements how collectivism worked for them.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:49 PM
 
48 posts, read 44,977 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Ask the people of the Roanoke & Jamestown Settlements how collectivism worked for them.
I can't, I'm not friends with them on Facebook. Nobody here is arguing for collectivism anyhow.
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:49 PM
 
20 posts, read 17,281 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkBlog View Post
I can't, I'm not friends with them on Facebook. Nobody here is arguing for collectivism anyhow.
Damn right.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,953 posts, read 22,062,169 times
Reputation: 13772
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
The debate is about a false dichotomy. Neither are mutually exclusive so-called collectivism or individualism are mutually exclusive. Humans are by nature a "collectivist species" our very survival has and will always depend upon it. By the same token individualism is a natural and necessary attribute of human existence. The only issue is how to balance the two so that one doesn't blot out the other. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.
Individualism, be responsible for yourself, and befitting from your own ideas and the sweat of your labor, is the motivation that drives people to work to improve their own situation in life.

With individuals working within a community, they are depending upon each other as they are each going about their day working to improve their own lives.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:48 PM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,379,720 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyPB View Post
Damn right.
//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...citizens.html?
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