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Old 05-12-2013, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
3,130 posts, read 3,074,467 times
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We hear a lot about how kids these days (or kids born after about 1980 or so) all got trophies and stuff, and that they are stifled because "everyone's a winner." Back when I was a kid (late 1980s-early 1990s,) I played soccer in a grade school league. At the end of the year, we would all get a cheap participation trophy. It meant absolutely nothing outside of that we played soccer. It had nothing to do with winning or accomplishments. I think I threw them all away. But clearly, "everybody" got a trophy, so I must not understand that the world is divided into winners and losers.

So - is this what "everybody gets a trophy" leads to?
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:51 PM
 
10,222 posts, read 19,213,191 times
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"Everybody gets a trophy" IMO either refers to an attempt to not make a world divided between winners and losers (the rarer, more idealistic, version), or an attempt to keep the losers from feeling bad and the winners from lording it over the losers (the more common version. Participation trophies are a nod to the second view, but they don't fool anyone; everyone knows the "first place" trophy beats the "participation" trophy any day of the week.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:59 PM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,205,160 times
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It's a made up problem by people who like to whine. If your child is in ANY activity after around the 5th grade, winners and losers get sorted out pretty quickly. If you're not good or you aren't willing to work hard, you don't play, or you don't get to perform on higher levels. Before that age, competition is silly. Kids should be in activities before then to try out new areas to see what they enjoy, have fun with their friends and build fundamental skills. Kids in late elementary and up have elections for class officers, and they compete to be in programs like quiz bowl. They're acknowledged for excelling in academics, music and sports. Some kids win, and some kids lose. That's life, and they're not protected from it.

We have a lot of crabby old people here who like to complain. If there isn't a real problem, they make one up. When I was a kid (in the 60s) even in programs like 4-H, the worst projects at least got a white ribbon. It's no different now than it was then.

Last edited by mb1547; 05-12-2013 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
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By the time my son started middle school he had more "trophies" then Jim Thorpe on his shelf.
And none of the teams he played in ever came in first place

Then you enter the real world and you don't get that trophy for just showing up.
Your project misses the deadline you aren't given a bonus because you just showed up every day.
You can fail your class and fail the state test and still be promoted based on "potential".
Everyone isn't promoted at work because some worked hard and others might have "potential".

Life doesn't treat everyone like "winners" and that is a shock to many.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
It's a made up problem by people who like to whine. If your child is in ANY activity after around the 5th grade, winners and losers get sorted out pretty quickly. If you're not good or you aren't willing to work hard, you don't play, or you don't get to perform on higher levels. Before that age, competition is silly. Kids should be in activities before then then try out new areas to see what they enjoy, have fun with their friends and build fundamental skills.

We have a lot of crabby old people here who like to complain. If there isn't a real problem, they make one up.
In Texas we have no pass, no play.
I've seen teachers hand out extra credit assignments to those students failing in order to keep them on the team.

It's a real problem. State tests are given 3 times here and then the board can still pass them based on "potential".

Anyone can sign up for an AP class regardless of their grade.

What I see missing is the strong sense of competition and clear distinction/appreciation for trying harder and being better. It's definitely downplayed for perceived self esteem issues.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
3,130 posts, read 3,074,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
By the time my son started middle school he had more "trophies" then Jim Thorpe on his shelf.
And none of the teams he played in ever came in first place

Then you enter the real world and you don't get that trophy for just showing up.
Your project misses the deadline you aren't given a bonus because you just showed up every day.
You can fail your class and fail the state test and still be promoted based on "potential".
Everyone isn't promoted at work because some worked hard and others might have "potential".

Life doesn't treat everyone like "winners" and that is a shock to many.
But see - those things are not equivalent.

Kids don't do stuff to get a participation trophy. Plus, there are plenty of examples of "participation trophies" in the real world - what would you call giving everybody who participated in a successful project free pizza or something?

It sounds like a manufactured problem to me.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:12 PM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,205,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
In Texas we have no pass, no play.
I've seen teachers hand out extra credit assignments to those students failing in order to keep them on the team.

It's a real problem. State tests are given 3 times here and then the board can still pass them based on "potential".

Anyone can sign up for an AP class regardless of their grade.
Then that's a problem with your school, which I find appalling. We have the same policy in our school. If you're failing a class, you bring your grade up by doing real work before you play. That means studying your butt off. I've seen High School coaches make kids do extra punishment workouts when their grades start to drop. It's amazing how fast grades go up under those circumstances when kids want to be part of the team, and how much peer pressure there is to get them back up from their teammates.

One little tidbit though--athletics and extra curricular activities are good for kids. The myth of the "dumb jock" is just that--a myth. Kids who participate in sports and extra curricular activities have higher grades and they're more likely to graduate. They also do better on standardized tests. The reasons may be that they have less time to get into trouble, they have to learn to manage their time better, and that participation is tied to grades--that they're surrounded by peers who provide positive role models for hard work and competition.
It's Not Just Child's Play: Why You Should Support Extracurricular Activities in Our Schools - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
But see - those things are not equivalent.

Kids don't do stuff to get a participation trophy. Plus, there are plenty of examples of "participation trophies" in the real world - what would you call giving everybody who participated in a successful project free pizza or something?

It sounds like a manufactured problem to me.
Where I worked the team did get free lunch (Dave & Buster's for the afternoon with a handful of game tokens) but there were those acknowledged for going above and beyond to get the project done and they were singled out and given monetary rewards..some in the 4 figure range.

It's the acknowledgment of those that went above and beyond that is trending towards being downplayed.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:16 PM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,205,160 times
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My kids would have been humiliated to just get a "participation trophy" because they were well aware of the differences between winning and just showing up when they were tiny. Kids aren't stupid. We (as parents) were the ones who had to downplay the competition part for them when they were super young. We just wanted them to try new things, learn basic skills, and have fun with their friends.

When I was young and playing softball for our community team, our coaches took us out for pizza at the end of the season too. It wasn't tied to winning. This is much crying and whining about NOTHING.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
Then that's a problem with your school, which I find appalling. We have the same policy in our school. If you're failing a class, you bring your grade up by doing real work before you play. That means studying your butt off. I've seen High School coaches make kids do extra punishment workouts when their grades start to drop. It's amazing how fast grades go up under those circumstances when kids want to be part of the team.

One little tidbit though--athletics and extra curricular activities are good for kids. The myth of the "dumb jock" is just that--a myth Kids who participate in sports and extra curricular activities, have higher grades and they're more likely to graduate. The reasons may be that they have less time to get into trouble, that participation is tied to grades, and that they're surrounded by peers who provide positive role models for hard work and competition.
It's Not Just Child's Play: Why You Should Support Extracurricular Activities in Our Schools - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Oh it's more than just "my school".

UT provides one on one tutors to their football players to help them keep their grades up.

School sports is another can of political worms. I'm glad my son didn't pursue it after middle school.
Many parents put their hopes and dreams on their kid winning a sports scholarship to college and the only way to insure that is to get the coach to play them alot.

I saw what went on in middle school and was only too glad my son got out because I can only imagine it's worse in high school.
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