Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-15-2013, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,741,572 times
Reputation: 1531

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_the_facts View Post
Because some people don't want their tax dollars going to schools like the following:
//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...-19-years.html
//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...dinosaurs.html
Are those school worse then say schools in the worst inner cities then America?

And you are look looking at this from market/consumer stand point.

If there was a soda that gave everyone who drank it a bad case of diarrhea, would anybody buy it? maybe a very very few, but other then that a vast, vast majority would not.

As well as the student/parents would have the ability to take there funds to another school if they found that the school, was not properly educating their children.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-15-2013, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,741,572 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
And end up with Mickey Mouse Macdonald Teachers instead.

No thanks!
Would that be worse then what we have now?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,741,572 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
re: teachers becoming customer service agents




Well since when were students customers?

Some things just don't work out well that way, ie: education and health.

Improve skills and abilities? Not sure that will happen though, after all good/bad teachers are what they are anyway.

And if the teacher just panders to the kids, where has his authority and ability to lead actually gone?
I hate to break it to you but education and health are commodities.. you are the customer you have the final say, and you have all the power, the power of choice, how do you get the best deal for you money..

students are not customers, there parents are, both of them have the most to gain and the most to lose...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,741,572 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
This is the point exactly. Private schools don't have the goal of educating everyone.

Public schools DO have that goal. The good ones discriminate by their very nature, they have no intention of educating everyone.

So defunding public schools obviously is going to hurt the kids who would continue attending public schools even with a voucher program.

If you make the voucher program too "strong," then you're either going to have the private schools turn away vouchers because they don't want an influx of indigent kids

If you make the voucher program too "weak", then it's going to pull a subset of "better" public school kids into private schools, leaving behind the public schools completely, defunding them and removing all their best students.

So regardless of how you slice it, you're hurting indigent kids by issuing vouchers.
wont we be hurting a greater number of kids by not issuing vouchers?

and they can have any goal they wish, it does not mean that they can/will achieve that goal..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,741,572 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
In principle I'm not against vouchers but there must be strict standards because not just many but most religious schools teach utter nonsense which amounts to nothing more than religious disinformation. Public tax money should never be used for such garbage thus the need for standards including strict science based standards.
I am sorry that is protected under the bill of rights, you know freedom of religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
Reputation: 14692
Because private schools are not better which leaves no reason to underfund public schools.

"Contrary to popular belief, we can find no evidence that private schools actually increase student performance....Instead, it appears that private schools simply have higher percentages of students who would perform well in any environment based on their previous performance and background."

Read more: Are Private Schools Really Better? - TIME

Private schools aren't doing something better. They have better students and when you skim the top like that, you're going to look better than what is left. If vouchers resulted in more students attending private schools, you'd just skim more off the top. I don't think that would be good for either public or private schools.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,741,572 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Because private schools are not better which leaves no reason to underfund public schools.

"Contrary to popular belief, we can find no evidence that private schools actually increase student performance....Instead, it appears that private schools simply have higher percentages of students who would perform well in any environment based on their previous performance and background."

Read more: Are Private Schools Really Better? - TIME

Private schools aren't doing something better. They have better students and when you skim the top like that, you're going to look better than what is left. If vouchers resulted in more students attending private schools, you'd just skim more off the top. I don't think that would be good for either public or private schools.
really so private schools are not better, they just have better students?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 02:18 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
really so private schools are not better, they just have better students?
That's the conclusion the research being discussed in the Time article supports.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 02:41 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post

Well since when were students customers?
Why shouldn't they be treated as customers? If parents can shop around for the best school that fits the needs of their children this would be bad for what reason?

There is one thing that is being overlooked here, with a voucher system you're going to introduce competition amongst schools for students and the funding they bring with them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 03:59 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Why shouldn't they be treated as customers? If parents can shop around for the best school that fits the needs of their children this would be bad for what reason?

There is one thing that is being overlooked here, with a voucher system you're going to introduce competition amongst schools for students and the funding they bring with them.
Because they aren't customers. Customers choose whether or not they want to buy a product. Many kids would choose not to go to school at all if they were really customers. They are being forced to attend school. I'm not sure what they are but they're not customers. I can't think of an analogy where someone is forced to buy a service (even mandatory auto insurance doesn't count because you can opt to not have a car).

When you're forcing someone to "buy" something they don't want, why would you expect them to choose the best product?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:31 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top