Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And do you tthink bank robbers should be entitled to their loot later in life?
There was nothing illegal in what city employee's did (by taking a paycheck).
But Detroit doesn't get into the mess it is without a bunch of graft and corruption.
But other problems are unique to Detroit. Several pension officials were accused this spring of taking bribes and kickbacks to influence investment decisions, and Mr. Orr recently called for an inquiry into possible fraud, waste or abuse in the pension system.
Funny how nobody likes pension reform. Like many places, Detroit assumed an 8% return on their assets. Completely ludicrous, and they're not alone. This allowed less funding for pensions, and the inevitable shortfall.
While union bosses were whooping at up at the Mayor's office, and many city employees making far, far more than counterparts in other cities, they fudged the pension rates and used your money instead. The reason they never brought this up, was that it made them look good for giving out pensions and raises, and it made the city governance look good because they didn't cut anything.
Worse yet, in many cities and towns like Detroit, people are demanding that not only does someone else pay for these mistakes, but they also want more teachers, higher pay, and more promises. It's in similar bad form to ask your dad for a new car and additional allowance after he got laid off.
Regardless of how other people's money funds Detroit, I suggest they start looking at changing State's constitutions everywhere. If your town is stupid, then deal with it. There are enough freeloaders today without adding corrupt and taxpayer-funded people to the mix.
The City of Detroit has known for at least 15 years that this day was coming. Most cities in similar circumstances renegotiated with the unions to correct the problem. Politicians in Detroit are under the union's thumb so therefore didn't address it (plus the unions refused to renegotiate).
They've got no one to blame except each other. They shouldn't expect anyone to bail them out.
Those pensioners should be blaming their own unions (who actually put the politicians in office) for the possibility of getting zero as opposed to a lesser amount.
Posted with TapaTalk
Yes they did. But in Democratic-dominated Detroit, it was never a possibility that money wouldn't fall from the sky. There will be more and more of these discussions as time goes by. Every single one of them has reasons that will appear obvious to some of us, and leave others with demands and their hands out.
That is going to be an expensive problem. One a far, far smaller scale the elementary school where I live is around 100 years old and the city is wanting to replace it. The best spot would be the site of an old glass factory but it's never going to happen because the clean up would be too expensive.
I was presenting this to those who felt like all of Detroit should be bulldozed and destroyed. I don't want to see that happen.
Worse yet, in many cities and towns like Detroit, people are demanding that not only does someone else pay for these mistakes, but they also want more teachers, higher pay, and more promises. It's in similar bad form to ask your dad for a new car and additional allowance after he got laid off..
Yes they did. But in Democratic-dominated Detroit, it was never a possibility that money wouldn't fall from the sky. There will be more and more of these discussions as time goes by. Every single one of them has reasons that will appear obvious to some of us, and leave others with demands and their hands out.
The unions drove the steel industry out of the Country and left cities like Pittsburgh in similar circumstances years ago.
As the unions lost the power to dictate who their cronie politicians would be in charge, responsible people who no longer relied on the union bosses nod came to power and diversified the economy and made the unions renegotiate.
Oh good, now you are comparing elderly and retirees to bank robbers. Why not start executing people once they hit a certain age, that would solve all our problems.
They benefitted from the corruption endemic to Detroit and its government. So yes, I would compare their pensions to stolen money. Sorry you are too corrupt yourself to understand.
The unions drove the steel industry out of the Country and left cities like Pittsburgh in similar circumstances years ago.
As the unions lost the power to dictate who their cronie politicians would be in charge, responsible people who no longer relied on the union bosses nod came to power and diversified the economy and made the unions renegotiate.
Posted with TapaTalk
Pittsburgh actually has a pension problem about the same as Detroit. A much smaller city and always was but the same problem. And a major driver is a shrinking population and an aging one.
One of the reasons why Detroit is such an interesting situation. The use of Federal Bankruptcy to escape state constitutions and laws is a new approach to a problem that has actually been solved virtually no where.
They benefitted from the corruption endemic to Detroit and its government. So yes, I would compare their pensions to stolen money. Sorry you are too corrupt yourself to understand.
So you believe that the pension problem present in almost all large cities is driven by corruption?
So you favor doing away with all government pensions as corrupt?
The City of Detroit has known for at least 15 years that this day was coming. Most cities in similar circumstances renegotiated with the unions to correct the problem. Politicians in Detroit are under the union's thumb so therefore didn't address it (plus the unions refused to renegotiate).
They've got no one to blame except each other. They shouldn't expect anyone to bail them out.
Those pensioners should be blaming their own unions (who actually put the politicians in office) for the possibility of getting zero as opposed to a lesser amount.
Posted with TapaTalk
Again, it is between the people, Detroit, and Michigan when it comes to solving this problem. I am sure many mistakes were made in the past 15 years but that doesn't change the fact that agreements were made and should be honored. You can agree or disagree all you want but that is what was in their contracts and what they are owed.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
