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There seems to be this notion that anti-gay is a spawn of religion. That those who appose the normalization of gay are inspired by the bible or something. You could turn the whole nation into hard core atheists and the level and number of so called anti-gays would remain pretty much the same. The phobia is more animal like than anything religious. It's like male dogs meeting and one dog makes what the other dog senses is a strange advance sexually...The offended dog is going to snap a the the other to let them know they will not be dominated. In nature odd behavior is resented and considered possibly dangerous. It's about respect...animals will demand respect...apparently liberal humans have no need for respect.
How is being anti gay not religious all the time? Its not a civil issue.
There are plenty of non-religious folks who are anti-gay. In fact, it has been argued that much of that which underlies anti-homosexuality is actually misogyny.
I question the motives of anti-gays, of course, as study after study has confirmed that the most ardently anti-gay are suppressing and repressing their own latent homosexual feelings - especially men.
Straight men secure in their sexuality often have zero concern with gay sex, as they are too busy leading their own healthy, productive heterosexual sex lives.
There seems to be this notion that anti-gay is a spawn of religion. That those who appose the normalization of gay are inspired by the bible or something. You could turn the whole nation into hard core atheists and the level and number of so called anti-gays would remain pretty much the same. The phobia is more animal like than anything religious. It's like male dogs meeting and one dog makes what the other dog senses is a strange advance sexually...The offended dog is going to snap a the the other to let them know they will not be dominated. In nature odd behavior is resented and considered possibly dangerous. It's about respect...animals will demand respect...apparently liberal humans have no need for respect.
Religion is a side-show and a distraction where this issue is concerned. And it isn't a phobia, but rather an innate disgust.
The religious component is used as a tool - quite effectively, I might add - to discredit those who haven't been absorbed into the mind-numb acceptance of the deviant sexual behavior of society's misfits.
I wish the religious folks would butt-out of this debate, as every time they open their mouths they push us a little further away from restoring cultural sanity.
Absolutely. This is why I support a law banning married couples from celebrating anniversary dinners in restaurants. It should also be illegal to discuss or even mention your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend at work or anywhere outside of your home.
And don't forget that pregnant women should be forced into hiding. Pregnant women blatantly shove their sexuality down my throat and make me know that they like unprotected vaginal sex
How does stealing my car "not harm me?" You harmed me because you took my car, and now I have no car!
Can't you buy another car? Can't you replace that car? What is being harmed? Again, you ask another person, they don't believe they are hurting you. That's why you have people who steal things. That's their truth. Your truth is subjective. When you say as long as it doesn't harm you? Harm is defined differently for different people.
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
#1, Romans is New Testament, written many centuries later, interpreting an event that many Jewish scholars will say does NOT concern homosexual activity as the impetus for destruction.
#2, Other Christians interpret the passage differently. They note that the persons involved in the orgy were former Christians, and were heterosexual. Romans 1 condemns them because they went against their nature -- their heterosexual orientation -- and engaged in same-gender sexual behavior. By the same reasoning, lesbians and gays who went against their fundamental nature -- their homosexual orientation -- and engaged in opposite-gender sexual behavior would also be sinning.
AGAIN: If sexual immorality was "the" issue, then basically you admit God condones offering your daughters to be gang raped, and then sleeping with your kids as something less horrendous than gay sex!
Use some logic!
Of course, if you believe that people are not innately homosexual, then you will never accept #2.
99% of gay people will tell you that they did not choose their sexuality. If you believe God has made everyone, then God made people homosexual.
Real simple question, do you believe the Bible is the truth?
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
Essentially, his message is that they should get married IF THEY CANNOT CONTROL THEIR NEED FOR SEX.
So how does that mean he doesn't condone marriage?
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
You can "express your opinion" all you like. That is your right.
When you take ACTION based on that opinion, then I have the right to take issue with it. ESPECIALLY when your actions HURT FAMILIES. Real families. Real People.
You're probably too busy with your head in the clouds to understand that you and people like you really do cause pain, misery and suffering to adults and children every day with your religious prohibitions that creep into our free society. But it's the truth.
You don't know me. All I have done is express my opinion. How do you conclude that I have harmed anyone?
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
The religion of logic and reason is always more palatable than a religion based in gods.
Why? Because a rational and logical person who has no gods will be more open to change their mind when faced with competent evidence. This is also the basis of science.
A person who believes they must order their lives pursuant with a book written by a bunch of people in the desert 4000 years ago or else they'll be smoted by the lord or sent to an eternal lake of fire --- not so much.
That is why you don't like some stealing your car? But it's okay to have one single view on homosexuality? What happened to being "open to change your mind"? Only when it fits your views right?
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
Not one gay person really gives a damn that you think what they are doing is sin. That's a road that only affects Christian gay people, especially young people before they accept themselves, and those who live in denial well into adulthood.
They don't care anymore than you or I care that when we eat a bacon cheeseburger, we are violating the Lord's will as prescribed in the Bible per Jewish law. Anymore than we care that a Muslim thinks we're heretic or an infidels that are going to hell for rejecting Mohammed.
As mentioned above, you don't see how voting against gay rights has harmful effects -- everyday, REAL EFFECTS on people, their finances, their families and their liberty.
Then why keep responding to me. You don't care right?
Can't you buy another car? Can't you replace that car? What is being harmed? Again, you ask another person, they don't believe they are hurting you. That's why you have people who steal things. That's their truth. Your truth is subjective. When you say as long as it doesn't harm you? Harm is defined differently for different people.
WRONG WRONG WRONG.
If I have to buy another car, it is an expense to me. Therefore, I am harmed. People who steal KNOW they are harming. They just don't care, or they think it's no big deal because I can afford to get a new car.
This isn't rocket science! Theft has always been a moral wrong, before the Abrahamic God was ever imagined into existence. Hammurabi forbade theft and he did not know the Abrahamic God. The Asian cultures existed for thousands of years without Jesus or Yaweh or Allah, and had well ordered, moral societies not based on God's word or will.
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Originally Posted by pgtvatitans
Real simple question, do you believe the Bible is the truth?
I CERTAINLY do not take your interpretation as truth. Let me guess... you probably read or have read the King James version, right? The politically motivated translation commissioned by a bisexual English King?
There is no proof that the Bible is truth, anymore than there is proof that the Koran is truth, or the bhagavad gita is truth.
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Originally Posted by pgtvatitans
So how does that mean he doesn't condone marriage?
Oh. right. Condoned but not encouraged. Preferable to be celibate and serve god. Unless you're weak.
A real ringing endorsement there, isn't it?!
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Originally Posted by pgtvatitans
You don't know me. All I have done is express my opinion. How do you conclude that I have harmed anyone?
If your opinions have caused you to work against gay rights, then you have harmed gay people, their families and children.
Period.
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Originally Posted by pgtvatitans
That is why you don't like some stealing your car? But it's okay to have one single view on homosexuality? What happened to being "open to change your mind"? Only when it fits your views right?
Being against homosexuality is as smart as being against deafness or left handedness, or green eyes.
Sure, you can be against those characteristics, I suppose, but it's kind of pointless.
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Originally Posted by pgtvatitans
Then why keep responding to me. You don't care right?
Pay closer attention: The gay rights movement and those that support it are looking for equality under the LAW.
The role that your religion plays in making you and million others literal lost causes as logical and rational thinking human beings, however, IS an issue worth exploring since it effects people's lives.
Other than that, have at it. Like I said, your opinion on whether gay sex is a sin is as meaningful as Rabbi Echstein's opinion on the sausage and peppers sandwich I had for lunch being dirty and a sin before God.
The day Rabbi Echstein tries to make laws to ban sausage and peppers based on his silly religious laws are the days I engage in a similar conversation with him about his belief.
I CERTAINLY do not take your interpretation as truth. Let me guess... you probably read or have read the King James version, right? The politically motivated translation commissioned by a bisexual English King?
There is no proof that the Bible is truth, anymore than there is proof that the Koran is truth, or the bhagavad gita is truth.
Then this conversation is over. You trying to interpret scripture is like a police officer trying to teach a chef how to cook a three course meal at a 5 star restaurant. Why are wasting your time trying to understand something you don't believe is true? Move on.
There are some parallels but they are really entirely different animals. Being black is a physical characteristic and not something you can hide. Being gay is a state of mind and something that is very easy to hide. I haven't heard of any businesses banning gay patrons. Before you correct me, I know many have refused to support gay marriage or host a gay-themed event but as far as allowing gays themselves to patronize them, it is exceedingly rare. Compare that to the 50s when whites only cafes were everywhere. It's pretty safe to say blacks had it far worse in the civil rights era than gays do today. You don't see widespread gay riots. Aside from marriage, gays don't have to worry about blatant discrimination by the government or firemen emptying their firehoses on them. They just aren't the same and when the gay rights movement says their struggle is the same as the black struggle, that is a disgrace to what blacks went through.
Too much BS to discredit in one single post. You really have no clue.
When is the last time a person was rejected from their own family for being black? Do blacks have substantially higher rates of suicide than other groups? Have black bars been closed and/or harassed just because they were primarily for a black clientele? Do people STILL wish death upon blacks just because their religion tells them that it's OK? Are various countries still passing laws against blacks? Were blacks targeted during the Holocaust? Can a black person be kept away from their loved one at the hospital just because? How often do lynchings happen these days? Gay bashing?
The struggles are not the same. It's a different time and place. But to say that gays have not "suffered" like blacks is pure ignorance.
With all of the certainty demonstrated here, I would bet than 90% of the people posting on this thread are heterosexual whites who have ZERO idea of what either blacks or gays have been through.
Then this conversation is over. You trying to interpret scripture is like a police officer trying to teach a chef how to cook a three course meal at a 5 star restaurant. Why are wasting your time trying to understand something you don't believe is true? Move on.
I care to understand the truth and history behind your holy book as an academic or historic exercise. Not an exercise in what "God really meant," since the truth is God did not write the Bible. If God wrote the Bible than he is an entity that suffers from the most awful human traits of jealousy, rage, hatred, violence, vanity and pride ... with a touch of schizophrenia making the transition from OT to NT.
You are a lost cause because you are too steeped in your own mysticism and dogma.
Only those who are removed from spiritual baggage can truly study a religion, because they will not be compelled to manufacture evidence to support their preconceived notions, and to "do right by their deity."
Those types of people are called apologists, and they are some of the most intellectually dishonest people out there.
I see you too join their ranks. Have fun with that.
There are plenty of non-religious folks who are anti-gay. In fact, it has been argued that much of that which underlies anti-homosexuality is actually misogyny.
I question the motives of anti-gays, of course, as study after study has confirmed that the most ardently anti-gay are suppressing and repressing their own latent homosexual feelings - especially men.
Straight men secure in their sexuality often have zero concern with gay sex, as they are too busy leading their own healthy, productive heterosexual sex lives.
Another pro Obama politically motivated story.
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