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Old 05-17-2013, 10:31 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,629,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
Considering the topic of the thread is should they be banned why would people bring up other homeless issues? Unless you mean other places they should be banned from.

I think they should be banned. A library is not a homeless shelter.
What if they like to read?

I'll bet there are lots of smelly people at the YMCA or any other gym: no one asks them to all leave.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,122 posts, read 3,498,555 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post

Public libraries are publicly funded and are founded on the premis that in a Democratic society information should be always available to everyone. That means that all citizens are welcome in public libraries. Libraries can only remove people based on local laws and ordinances. Some library boards have set policies that state that extreme body odor = causing a disturbance, which is usually a misdemeanor and thus a reason for removing someone from the library. But most libraries can't afford guards. How would you like to be a (usually) older or young woman asking a person who is usually male and drunk or mentally ill to leave the building? And body odor is the least of it. What about the people who talk (or yell) to the voices in their heads?
Yeah, we really shouldn't have people in libraries who had the audacity to get sick and goes around having symptoms of their illness. Someone may be offended and like their experience at the library less. Maybe we shouldn't stop at banning people with schizophrenia. Maybe we should ban people being treated for cancer too. They can be pretty depressing with their bald heads and sickly look. And what about epileptics? They could have a seizure and knock stuff down. Talk about disturbance!
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,236,422 times
Reputation: 11416
A man smells bad from the building?
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,242 posts, read 7,892,050 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socially Inept View Post
At my local library a homeless man is always sitting in the area next to the magazines and newspapers. If he is not there this seating area is the most popular place in the library but once he sits down, nearly everyone leaves and are forced to sit far from the magazines and walk far to get their next magazine.

Why do they leave? HE SMELLS, just terrible. He does not take a bath and has incredible body odor. You can smell him from 20 feet away.

Other than his terrible smell he does not make any waves or say a thing, he just sits there.

Should the library be able to ban him from coming in until he takes a bath and stops smelling so bad?
Sokar? Is that you?
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,122 posts, read 3,498,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phonelady61 View Post
what about some of you who are complaining about him offer him some clean clothes so maybe if he has a chance to shower he would do so and put on some clean fresh clothes . I used to work with some ladies who would hand out clothes to the homeless on weekends .
If the man smells that bad it's likely not an issue of lack of clean clothes and a place to shower. There are shelters and other agencies in most cities where people can get new clothes and shower. People who don't avail themselves of that and let it go so far that they smell so bad that people can't be around them are likely severely mentally ill and is probably not aware how dirty they are or can't shower due to fears, etc. I know a schizophrenic woman who won't shower because she is convinced that the water is poisoned.

Ideally there should be mental health/social services outreach workers available to come and handle these problems by offering, or in the case of the severely mentally ill who lack insight, demanding help and, of course, that help has to exist. As it is right now there are nowhere nearl enough services for those who need it and even if there were there is nothing that can be done with a mentally ill person who doesn't want help because they don't understand that they're sick.
What we need are better laws so that family members or other members of society can have a mentally ill person in bad shape hospitalized and medicated even if they don't consent. We also desperately need a lot more beds in psychiatric hospitals for those who need that level of care and group homes and assisted living facilities for those who don't need to be in the hospital but can't take care of themselves. Finally we need funding for these things. As it is now insurance companies often refuse to pay for needed care and some don't have insurance at all.
If we had all these things people like the man in the OP could be housed and medicated which would probably help him start to take care of his hygiene. Most of the people who look stereotypically homeless are mentally ill and with appropriate care these people would be housed and not hanging out at the library. It would be a win-win situation for everyone.
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,122 posts, read 3,498,555 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socially Inept View Post
At my local library a homeless man is always sitting in the area next to the magazines and newspapers. If he is not there this seating area is the most popular place in the library but once he sits down, nearly everyone leaves and are forced to sit far from the magazines and walk far to get their next magazine.

Why do they leave? HE SMELLS, just terrible. He does not take a bath and has incredible body odor. You can smell him from 20 feet away.

Other than his terrible smell he does not make any waves or say a thing, he just sits there.

Should the library be able to ban him from coming in until he takes a bath and stops smelling so bad?
Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Imagine if, for example, cancer made people smell really bad, would you advocate banning people with cancer from the library?
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,304,172 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Imagine if, for example, cancer made people smell really bad, would you advocate banning people with cancer from the library?
Actually there are several medical conditions that do indeed make people smell. They have no control over it.

I'm still trying to figure out who still uses libraries to get books. Then you sit in there and read them? Man, you guys are kickin' it old school!

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Old 05-18-2013, 01:50 AM
 
6,904 posts, read 7,566,225 times
Reputation: 21719
It's the classic American dilemma - The rights of the individual v. the rights of the many. This issue will always be debated and no solution will ever make everyone happy.

For those of you getting huffy about the rights of the mentally ill who live in public libraries because they have nowhere else to go: maybe you should be one of the saints who works in a public library. Please consider it, because people who feel as you do are very much needed there.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,304,172 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
It's the classic American dilemma - The rights of the individual v. the rights of the many. This issue will always be debated and no solution will ever make everyone happy.

For those of you getting huffy about the rights of the mentally ill who live in public libraries because they have nowhere else to go: maybe you should be one of the saints who works in a public library. Please consider it, because people who feel as you do are very much needed there.
It is a tough one. I wish there was a solution.

I'll also back you that it is hell to work in there. When I was in college the campus computer system crashed and I had to go across the street to the public library to print out a paper. Grant it this was in the hardcore ghetto but it was terrible in there. The smell...noise...rudeness...just horrific.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,927 posts, read 14,111,175 times
Reputation: 16637
In the "bad old days" before national socialism (1935), vagrants were known as "status criminals" and given the "bum's rush" to the city limits or 30 days in jail. As excepted classes (Art.IV of Confederation, 1777), they did not have the rights, powers, privileges, nor immunities of the free inhabitants nor the free citizens.

All that changed with "voluntary" enrollment into FICA (Social Security Act of 1935). All enumerated participants fall to the status of pauper and vagabond, thus become "status criminals." The government cannot target one group and ignore the vast majority of others.

Now you know why there's a 'homeless crisis' that didn't exist 80 years ago.
And why public places were not squats for the unwashed and unkempt.
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