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Because that's what "big government" does.
Rather than keep the money local, it's sent to the Fed who turns around and doles it back out to the states.
This is the government the majority want.
Now you have to live with it and endure the process.
...and it's a vicious circle:
1) the fed says they will do more for the state
1a) then the fed steal more state tax revenue to fund the new stuff
2) the state finds it is coming up short on tax revenue, and asks the fed to help
2a) the fed steal more state tax revenue to fund the new stuff
...and round and round it goes, and the feds demand the state change their laws, or they'll withhold education or highway funds. Hey, the states gave the fed that power, by allowing them in the door, and now the fed has become a tyrant.
Then it becomes even more insidious, whereby the federal government gives itself hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars, then mandate the state do X or else they will withhold that federal funding. The insidious part is the feds already took those hundreds of billions from the state, in the form of future revenue the state must payback, so if they do not accept the funding, the fed will steal that future state revenue and give it to other states.
Well CNN Has the mayor on right now and he mentioned nothing like that, and the lead up to that talked about the possibility of Red Tape. It says that claim is also false, the reason some people got rejected is because they chose try and build seller and not safe rooms as well a fraud from companies claiming to build rooms and them either not living up to the standard or taking the money and running.
But just to rebut what you said.
1. This is not about "personal responsibility and self reliance". using the context of what you said, a person who paid for a safe room by taking a loan out from a back would be deemed "irresponsible" because it still isnt their own money, it is someone else.
2.Liberals are advocating that people should live by the principles they preach. We dont know the people of Moore, nor does anyone on this forum, so we dont know if they are the type of people who wanted FEMA to be dismantled or if they said you shouldnt use government, BUT WE DO know the conservatives that post on this site.
If you have advocated that government does not work or that these programs should be cut, then you cant turn around and say people should have used them.
You didn't "rebut" anything...just spin and cherry picked what I said.
1. As long as the loan is repaid then they can still be responsible. Liberals are in this very thread yapping about how the people of Moore should have done it their damn selves. When that same line is said on just about every other matter, then it's being selfish, evil, uncaring, greedy, etc.
2. Liberals are not advocating anything, for when this was Katrina you people couldn't stop bashing Bush and the govt for not doing enough. Now, well those damn residents of Moore should have done something themselves. Hypocrisy.
This isn't about conservatives on this site, this is about Moore. So how does holding the right to their standards on this board have anything to do with Moore?
And no one is saying they should have used these programs, just that they are still not working and if they are still failing people, then yeah it should be cut or something. The OP was pointing out the failure of big govt, not advocating it should have been used.
Instead of taking note of this failure and criticizing the big govt you people advocate for, you're worried about holding the right to "standards" you seem to think they have.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricGold
You didn't "rebut" anything...just spin and cherry picked what I said.
1. As long as the loan is repaid then they can still be responsible. Liberals are in this very thread yapping about how the people of Moore should have done it their damn selves. When that same line is said on just about every other matter, then it's being selfish, evil, uncaring, greedy, etc.
I havent seen anyone use "greedy, evil,uncaring, or selfish" in the context you are claiming. So i completely disagree.
Quote:
2. Liberals are not advocating anything, for when this was Katrina you people couldn't stop bashing Bush and the govt for not doing enough. Now, well those damn residents of Moore should have done something themselves. Hypocrisy.
Republicans on this very forum have said that you should not rely on government for anything. The response you are getting from liberals on this forum are about just that.
As for New Orleans, it wasnt about preperation. it was about what was done(or rather what wasnt done) after. your analogy is flawed.
Quote:
This isn't about conservatives on this site, this is about Moore. So how does holding the right to their standards on this board have anything to do with Moore?
The People of more are not the ones commenting on these threads.
Quote:
]And no one is saying they should have used these programs, just that they are still not working and if they are still failing people, then yeah it should be cut or something. The OP was pointing out the failure of big govt, not advocating it should have been used.
There was no failure, people were trying to use the program for things it wasnt meant to be used for, so they were rejected,as well a fraud being reported in the area.
Quote:
Instead of taking note of the failure of big govt you people advocate for, you're worried about holding the right to "standards" you seem to think they have.
again, there was no failure. And yes, if you have a standard, you should be held to it. When did that change ?
You didn't "rebut" anything...just spin and cherry picked what I said.
1. As long as the loan is repaid then they can still be responsible. Liberals are in this very thread yapping about how the people of Moore should have done it their damn selves. When that same line is said on just about every other matter, then it's being selfish, evil, uncaring, greedy, etc.
2. Liberals are not advocating anything, for when this was Katrina you people couldn't stop bashing Bush and the govt for not doing enough. Now, well those damn residents of Moore should have done something themselves. Hypocrisy.
This isn't about conservatives on this site, this is about Moore. So how does holding the right to their standards on this board have anything to do with Moore?
And no one is saying they should have used these programs, just that they are still not working and if they are still failing people, then yeah it should be cut or something. The OP was pointing out the failure of big govt, not advocating it should have been used.
There isn't any entitlement to free money. Free money is subject to standards that must be met and funding that must be supplied by Congress. If it was so important to live in OK then the people there could have built a shelter if they chose to. Occasionally, the fed gives grants and tax deductions for home repairs, but if your house needs a new roof then your house needs a new roof.
Katrina WAS a governmental failure. The government was criticized in their response to Katrina. Alot of people died that may not have died if the response was more aggressive, but the people in charge didn't take Katrina seriously.
There isn't any entitlement to free money. Free money is subject to standards that must be met and funding that must be supplied by Congress. If it was so important to live in OK then the people there could have built a shelter if they chose to. Occasionally, the fed gives grants and tax deductions for home repairs, but if your house needs a new roof then your house needs a new roof.
Katrina WAS a governmental failure. The government was criticized in their response to Katrina. Alot of people died that may not have died if the response was more aggressive, but the people in charge didn't take Katrina seriously.
Only if you're AIG, or Goldman Sachs, or another crooked bank.
I havent seen anyone use "greedy, evil,uncaring, or selfish" in the context you are claiming. So i completely disagree.
LOL, well, you need to read more. That happens pretty much all the time. You being ignorant of it doesn't change it.
Quote:
Republicans on this very forum have said that you should not rely on government for anything. The response you are getting from liberals on this forum are about just that.
I don't think any republicans is saying they should have used Fema, Just pointing out the failure of big govt and how this should have been handled more locally. But you people keep trying to spin this into right wing hypocrisy or something.
Quote:
As for New Orleans, it wasnt about preperation. it was about what was done(or rather what wasnt done) after. your analogy is flawed.
Spin a little more....keep spining. Not gonna change a thing. When Katrina hit, it was Bush and the govt fault for not doing enough. All in the media and online. Now with Moore, it's somehow different. Right.
Quote:
There was no failure, people were trying to use the program for things it wasnt meant to be used for, so they were rejected,as well a fraud being reported in the area.
"The city of Moore applied for $2 million in federal aid to help build safe rooms in 800 homes, but the city complained the program was delayed because FEMA standards were a “constantly changing target.” NBC’s Tom Costello reports"
Not sure what you are talking about, but nothing mentions people trying to use the program for stuff it wasn't meant for. I'm gonna kindly ask you to start posting some links.
Quote:
again, there was no failure. And yes, if you have a standard, you should be held to it. When did that change ?
Again, you're not holding anyone to anything. You're trying to deflect the failure of the big govt you people push for by worrying about how the right isn't holding its standards. Standards you seem to not fully understand.
There isn't any entitlement to free money. Free money is subject to standards that must be met and funding that must be supplied by Congress. If it was so important to live in OK then the people there could have built a shelter if they chose to. Occasionally, the fed gives grants and tax deductions for home repairs, but if your house needs a new roof then your house needs a new roof.
Katrina WAS a governmental failure. The government was criticized in their response to Katrina. Alot of people died that may not have died if the response was more aggressive, but the people in charge didn't take Katrina seriously.
So let me get this straight, Katrina was a failure of the govt becasue the didn't take it serious. But somehow not taking something serious nicknamed Tornado Alley isn't a failure of govt?
I'm not saying that these people shouldn't have do something more on their own, just that it's funny that rebates for storm shelters are seen as "entitlements" but free birth control, abortion, food stamps, education, etc, etc are "rights".
You didn't "rebut" anything...just spin and cherry picked what I said.
1. As long as the loan is repaid then they can still be responsible. Liberals are in this very thread yapping about how the people of Moore should have done it their damn selves. When that same line is said on just about every other matter, then it's being selfish, evil, uncaring, greedy, etc.
2. Liberals are not advocating anything, for when this was Katrina you people couldn't stop bashing Bush and the govt for not doing enough. Now, well those damn residents of Moore should have done something themselves. Hypocrisy.
This isn't about conservatives on this site, this is about Moore. So how does holding the right to their standards on this board have anything to do with Moore?
And no one is saying they should have used these programs, just that they are still not working and if they are still failing people, then yeah it should be cut or something. The OP was pointing out the failure of big govt, not advocating it should have been used.
Instead of taking note of this failure and criticizing the big govt you people advocate for, you're worried about holding the right to "standards" you seem to think they have.
Moore had already received two major grants to build shelters. Some here are whining and crying that they didn't get a third one--it was on hold until Moore submitted a plan to FEMA to show how they were coordinating all the state and local resources they had to show how they were working together to prevent future disasters and to lessen the impact when they occurred. My point is that you don't get it both ways--if you want groups to receive federal funds, then don't whine about checks and balances in the process to make sure the money is put to good use in one breath, and then scream about government waste and abuse in the next.
We're not going to solve the issue of states vs. the feds here--that debate has been going on since before the civil war. I personally believe that we are NOT 50 individual countries--we're ONE country. In some instances, a coordinated national effort for programs is appropriate, especially when we're working for consistent services and infrastructure for all Americans.
So let me get this straight, Katrina was a failure of the govt becasue the didn't take it serious. But somehow not taking something serious nicknamed Tornado Alley isn't a failure of govt?
I'm not saying that these people shouldn't have do something more on their own, just that it's funny that rebates for storm shelters are seen as "entitlements" but free birth control, abortion, food stamps, education, etc, etc are "rights".
My post never addressed food and birth control, both of which you have to qualify for before you can receive. Education is a right though and it is spelled out in nearly every state constitution.
More to the point, the people on this forum are criticizing the government not for the actions after the fact, but for the action prior to the fact. The rest of us are just pointing out the hypocrisy. Is anyone seriously going to tell me that if you need something then the fact that they can't get a discount is going to change their mind on something they need? That's absurd and entirely illogical.
I often forget coupons, but me forgetting to bring a coupon doesn't change the fact that I still need and will still buy food. When I get my oil changed sometimes they run specials, but if there isn't a special I'm still going to get my oil changed. When you need tires you go and shop around for the best deal, but if nobody is offering free tires then you are still going to buy the tires.
Obviously, the people in OK didn't think it was important enough to put in the shelters without the grant money. I'm willing to bet there are people in OK that chose to put in a pool, but not a shelter.
EDIT: I just used google maps and the people in Moore, OK do indeed have pools. I saw about 7-12 pool in one neighborhood. Swimming was more important to them.
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