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Old 05-25-2013, 12:48 AM
 
9,659 posts, read 10,199,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Our communicated warnings are direct to local and county EOCs (emergency operations centers), and THEY are the ONLY ones capable of sounding their sirens. I have personally been the cause of a tornado warning siren on several occasions. In those instances the National Weather Service issued their warning AFTER the coordinated EOC issued it's own warning & sounded the sirens.
Well, I don't live in tornado country, I live in hurricane country. Our biggest threats come from warnings made by the NHC.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,617 posts, read 1,811,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
Well, I don't live in tornado country, I live in hurricane country. Our biggest threats come from warnings made by the NHC.

Yes... I can see why you would be comfortable relying upon the government for hurricane warnings. It's not like hurricanes can manage to sneak up on you. A fairly accurate warning is about 2-3 days out. That is about the government's speed.
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Old 05-25-2013, 01:00 AM
 
9,659 posts, read 10,199,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Yes... I can see why you would be comfortable relying upon the government for hurricane warnings. It's not like hurricanes can manage to sneak up on you. A fairly accurate warning is about 2-3 days out. That is about the government's speed.
Unfortunately, not all people heed the warnings or evacuation calls made by the city, and that's how you get ugly situations.

...At least I am grateful that we have something like the NHC, used to be that if ships didn't warn of the storm ahead of time, everyone living on the beach would be washed away to sea in bad storms.
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Old 05-25-2013, 05:31 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,911,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaninEGF View Post
National Weather Service did not have a banner week last week as equipment problems plagued some offices. Rep Wolf (R-VA) begs NWS/NOAA to not have furloughs and wants to work to give money to avoid furloughing forecasters. What does NOAA leadership do..... the sound of crickets is appropriate. I post this for info only.... this is not a democratic or republican problem....but a NOAA problem.


Weather Service systems crumbling as extreme weather escalates

I am a NWS met in ND/MN so biased a little bit of course but the lack of leadership at NOAA is starting to show cracks in the system....make some decisions anything.

Dan
This has been an issue for years. Look at the state of the USHCN.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Long Island
56,925 posts, read 25,858,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Many tv stations are getting their own forecasting tools, including very high powered computers. Most tv stations have had their own radar for years.

BTW, the National Weather Service cannot accurately predict the weather 5 days out. Just like everyone else in the business.
The NWS in conjunction with other agencies like the FAA has 100's of weather radars across the nation. The NWS also has other weather sensors, sattelite feeds and software used in prediction and forecasting. Yes some TV stations have their own radars but they are not even close to the capacity of the NWS and most cannot afford the expense of procurement and maintenance.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:01 AM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,176,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhammer70 View Post
Not in today's society. The internet is becoming more and more integral to how we conduct our lives and commerce is conducted in the modern world. For most of the folks on this forum, the internet is a place to putz around and ***** about the big, evil government and welfare queens, so of course in that capacity, yes, the internet is not a necessity but a luxury. Think macro level, not micro.
That's just it. If you're 80 and your kids finally hooked you up to a desktop so you can play on the internet and annoy people with your complete ignorance on forums, you probably think it's a toy. The rest of us live in the real world where it's hard to do ANYTHING, especially in a business, without it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A&M_Indie_08 View Post
If you believe that internet is necessary then you have bigger issues than we thought
What century do you live in? I don't think I'd be talking to anyone else about having "issues" if I were you. I own a marketing firm. Everything we do is done with computers, right down to design work and submitting and receiving text. The information is transmitted instantly, vs. the "hurry up and wait" process of submitting drafts, info, guidelines, etc. back and forth by mail in the past, and having to manually enter edits. If you own a retail store, you obviously don't understand that many wholesalers don't even have print catalogs anymore--that many do e-catalogs because of cost, and ordering is done online. If you have a small auto repair shop and you need to pick up a part you don't have in stock, you find it online. More and more buying and selling and customer contact is done online. I could go on and on, but I've made my point. That doesn't even touch the UNIVERSE of information and resources most people use daily from the internet for both business and personal use. In the past, if I needed to look something up, I had to go to a library to find basic information, and often had to send a request out through inter-library loan for microfilm or periodicals dealing with an issue. It could take weeks. Now it's at my fingertips through the internet. Even my 80 year old rancher dad uses his smart phone (they can't get broadband, so he has limitations on what he can do) to help manage his farming and ranching operation and for ongoing professional education and resources.

Last edited by mb1547; 05-25-2013 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,999 posts, read 4,123,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Yes... I can see why you would be comfortable relying upon the government for hurricane warnings. It's not like hurricanes can manage to sneak up on you. A fairly accurate warning is about 2-3 days out. That is about the government's speed.
Fairly accurate? That's being overly optimistic. LOL... Tell that to those of us who went through Charlie. NOAA was saying Tampa northward was going to take the hit even that morning... 100 miles south down in Punta was barely in the cone.... Meanwhile the nobodies at HurricaneCity were accurately predicting landfall, rate of forward speed and size.

While I'm not saying to do away with NOAA or the NWS, I find that the local prediction center's and others more times than not know much much more. It was the local predictions that saved us just this past Monday afternoon, by getting the information out to us and told us where to find shelter for the tornado's here in Oklahoma....
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:43 PM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,904,996 times
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I found it interesting that "weather modding" does overlap the whole AGW discussion. Also, that NOAA, who appears to fall under Dept of Commerce is reported to be dealing with weather control and not research. Sounds like they think they need more funding, maybe?
//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...l#post29681695
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Old 05-25-2013, 03:35 PM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,818 posts, read 10,965,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Another COMPLETE fabrication. EVERY State, County and local city/town has the authority by being an elected governing body to provide it OWN warnings which can & often do come without the NWS first issuing the warning. They get these warnings from coordinated groups like the one I am a part of.

I have numerous citations from multiple counties, a few cities and even several from the National Weather Service itself for warnings "I" provided through our coordinated EOCs. Warnings that produced local or county government issued warnings, only to have the NWS follow suit based on my personal warning or the groups coordinated warning.

Please do not embarrass yourself any farther than you already have.

You act like I have never given spotter talks, or never spoke to area EM's....geez...I have only been in the NWS for 23 years.

I think you are confusing the the two. I am talking about the actual text warning with FIPS coding and SAME alerts. Local EOC can sound sirens, etc based on what they see before an official warning is issued, but text warnings, with the coding, etc that go out and on the web and to tv radio stations and the weather channel are done by NWS>

Last edited by Kamsack; 05-25-2013 at 04:25 PM..
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Old 05-25-2013, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,617 posts, read 1,811,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaninEGF View Post
You act like I have never given spotter talks, or never spoke to area EM's....geez...I have only been in the NWS for 23 years.

With spotter talks we give the spotter community (which often consists locally of the EM, local spotters, HAMs, volunteer or paid police and fire fighters. We give them to tools on what to look for. Now, each jurisdiction can decide on when to sound the sirens....some will without a warning if the person in charge usually at the local EOC or sheriff office decides a credible report of a tornado was received. When one is received the local officals notify their local NWS (in your area it would be Topeka or Pleasant Hill....maybe Wichita or Hastings depending on what part of northeastern KS you live in. There are those cases in local spin ups when a tornado is not detected by radar well and the report and detection comes first from the local officials. So in those cases, the sirens will be sounded first (if they see it) then the warning comes as they notifiy us.

But in no cases are official warnings ever issued by a local jurisdiction and sent to the media. There is strict rules prohibiting an actual warning from being issued other than the NWS. Now you can suggest a storm may be severe, but no actual print warning can be generated and sent out.

I am not some rookie NWS person I have years of experience all through the country and no very well how the NWS and the EM community function. If you feel like you give warnings...that is fine....believe like you want but I know how it works....you can believe as you wish. Doesnt matter to me.

And I am far from being a rookie in this.

I also know the NWS can NOT sound the tornado warning sirens in ANY jurisdiction because it has ZERO authority to do so. Only the local governing body can do that with the policies THEY, not the NWS, have in place. I also know for a fact that local governing bodies can, and OFTEN do put out warnings (maybe not in text or in some other writing) by sounding their sirens absent ANY warning issued by the NWS. I've even seen it done without the NWS so much as having issued a watch. Oh, how could that be possible?



Quote:
Originally Posted by DaninEGF
I would love to know the group you are with....because you are posting big time mis information on here...

Dan

I don't care what you think you know or want to know because I know for a FACT that you have repeatedly lied to the group.

I have been extremely active with weather, storm chasing, storm spotting for over 25 years. Many of those years I have been one of the instructors on numerous storm specific topics. I know have never ISSUED a warning. THAT is not my claim. I have provided information to coordinated EOCs that HAVE issued warnings (in the form of sounding sirens), and have done so WITHOUT first waiting for the NWS to attempt to verify the warning via their information.

I have stood, worked and ridden side by side with NWS employees. I have even been involved in training some of them in ACTUAL severe weather spotting, not the fluff they put out as severe weather spotting. I have citations from the NWS for my service to them and to the multiple communities and counties I happened to be serving during different storm events.

Your comments about having put on those 2 hour storm spotter sessions, then thinking LEOs, EMS, FIRE or other 1st responders, much less citizens with the same training have been sufficiently trained shows you don't even realize how the subjects covered in those training sessions are FAR from being thorough.

But you just keep believing that absolutely no one can accomplish what the NWS does or that they can do it cheaper and more efficient. As a matter of FACT... in typical socialist government knows best mentality, your claim of the sky falling if your funding is cut back shows your utter contempt for anyone who does not tow the, "Just give us some more money and we'll make it all better, because we CARE" line.


All this because severe storm spotting and chasing, along with amateur radio are my hobbies and passions? I'd be willing to bet you don't have any citations (commendations) from a Sheriff, a County Commission, a Mayor/City Commission, or even the NWS. Let me know if that ever changes.

The main differences between you and me is, one this is a hobby for me so I'm not suckling the teat of the taxpayers, and two... I'd be willing to do this for free (and even at my OWN expense), like I already have, but for another 25 years if my health allows it. You... probably wouldn't lift a finger to help people unless you were paid to do it.

Cheers.

Last edited by KS_Referee; 05-25-2013 at 05:25 PM..
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