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No atheism is about a system where right and wrong are defined by government. And if government decides that killing millions of it's own citizens is right then who is to argue?
It has nothing to do with government. It has to do with your personal belief.
So what you are saying is that religious believes starts wars. How many religious people believed in god but broke off into their own religion and started wars because of it. To me atheism is to hold yourself accountable and to believe in yourself.
You can fervently believe that all you like, but atheism has as much or more potential for atrocities as any religion does and Marxism proved that. Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Sung, Castro and Ho Chi Min were the "Popes" for all intents and purposes leading their anti-religious ideological crusade.
Can you name for me the single biggest genocide/mass-murder whose marching orders sprang directly from the leadership of any religion?
The worst that immediately comes to mind is the 30 Years War which killed about 8 million in total, though the responsibility for those 8 million deaths would need to be divided up between Catholicism and Protestantism. That's big certainly, but it's nothing comparison to the death count that Marxists managed to tally in the 20th century, and those Marxist nutjobs were slaughtering their own people to boot!
You said you are Catholic but you certainly sound like an admirer of atheism. Odd but to each their own.
So the politicians of iran are apparently proposing a law to let 9 year old marry to fit sharia law, which any western reader will find absurd. In general muslim based laws are a cause for a lot of resentment towards foreign legal systems.
But in a more general basis do you think it's acceptable that politicians argue legislation based on religious beliefs? or use the god so many believe in for their political campaigns?
An example is the discussion about abortions, where there is apparently a large part of america being against abortions calling it "pro life", based on their "christian morals and values".
Even presidential candidates went into this in the last election, but what really gives a christian believer and/or politician the right to tell for example an atheist woman what she can or can't do with her womb and arguably almost alive fetus?
President bush ended the better part of his speaches along the lines with "god bless america", a rather innocent statement, but should the highest ruling person of a modern country really be involving religion in his speaches about governing a country of which the very first founding documents state clearly that religion should have nothing to do with the country?
The very first ammendment of your constitution says
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
what do you think?
It is inevitable. Religion affects people, and people are politics. "God" is not a religion.
If you research the 1st Amendment, except one or two, out-of-context quotes, the sole purpose of that clause was to prohibit the federal government establish a national religion. States, however, were free to do so if they wished. The restriction was upon Congress and nobody else.
Religion does have a role to play in Government but it is a very small and well Defined role. things like recognizing that god exists and that we get our rights from him and not the government but other than that it shouldn't play a role.
BS.
There's absolutely no proof that a god thingie exists.
As soon as one politician, or one religious figure talks politics, all churches in that flavor of the cult lose their tax status for good.
If they want to be involved in politics, they get taxed; property, income, etc.
All of it.
Right now, invoking God constantly isn't going to get you elected anywhere in the USA. There have been religion-based abuses in US history and I don't think it's right. But most of your Christian basics (Thou shalt no kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not commit adultery, etc) are just common sense morals. They should make perfect sense to anyone no matter what religion or non-religion they happen to belong to.
If you can offer up some actual examples of the USA doing what Iran is doing, please do share. I think we'd all love to hear about it. I am not aware of any law that crams anyone's religious views down another's throat.
Abortion is not a God vs Atheism argument. Many atheists and agnostics are pro-life. The pro-life side of things is ridiculously easy to argue without even mentioning God at all. So this particular example fails.
I think that the President is not a member of Congress. His saying "God bless America" does not constitute making a law. If a member of Congress wants or any person of high political standing wants to invoke God, Allah, Buddha, Thor, Zeus or Ra in any public speech, I'd say that's them exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. It would be unconstitutional to tell them they can't.
Clear violations of the 2nd Amendment would be things like the Wounded Knee Massacre or The Mormon Extermination Order of Missouri. Forcing an atheist to pray or refusing to allow a believer to pray -- those are violations of the 2nd Amendment. America is diverse in all ways and we'll just have to get along without trying to run other people's lives. Forcing others to do what we think is right purely on religious/ideological grounds is wrong and should never be tolerated.
Kind of missing the premise of the comment you responded to, I see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555
the government doesn't give you any rights. you are born with your rights weather or not the government respects them or not is something else. in the founding documents of the United States it recognizes that and it should continue to do so.
This is simply insane.
Blacks couldn't marry whites until the 60s; women couldn't vote, hold property, etc; gays can't marry, etc. etc. etc.
So they had the rights, didn't need to have them from the government, yet they could not do them on their own...
No atheism is about a system where right and wrong are defined by government. And if government decides that killing millions of it's own citizens is right then who is to argue?
Oh, how absolutely insane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
You can fervently believe that all you like, but atheism has as much or more potential for atrocities as any religion does and Marxism proved that. Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Sung, Castro and Ho Chi Min were the "Popes" for all intents and purposes leading their anti-religious ideological crusade.
Can you name for me the single biggest genocide/mass-murder whose marching orders sprang directly from the leadership of any religion?
The worst that immediately comes to mind is the 30 Years War which killed about 8 million in total, though the responsibility for those 8 million deaths would need to be divided up between Catholicism and Protestantism. That's big certainly, but it's nothing comparison to the death count that Marxists managed to tally in the 20th century, and those Marxist nutjobs were slaughtering their own people to boot!
You said you are Catholic but you certainly sound like an admirer of atheism. Odd but to each their own.
It seems that you know absolutely nothing about religious history.
Or are simply making stuff up to suit your argument.
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