Trayvon Martin Case: Will Zimmerman be convicted? (graph, legal, attorneys)

[gsupstate]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

Wow, this poll shows how racist and sick many people in this country really are. Please seek help, ASAP. Zimmerman is a criminal and should be convicted as such.

You are right. I'm shocked at how many racist are pro Trayvon and attacking Zimmerman. Trayvon was a thug that picked on the wrong man, and that man defended himself.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by softblueyz

Looks suspicious: wearing a hoodie. Martin was also "casing" the homes while walking to the townhouse where he lived. I guess that should serve as a lesson to people. When walking keep your eyes straight ahead of you or keep them down. Don't look around because you may be considered "casing" homes. And definitely suspicious if you are wearing a hoodie in the rain.

Exactly! If it's raining, don't put up that hood. If you don't know quite how to get back to the home you're visiting, don't look around trying to find it.

Originally Posted by Redshadowz

Well, the physical evidence clearly shows that Zimmerman was attacked. Witnesses saw one of them on top of the other before the shots went off. George Zimmerman's back was wet, he had a broken nose, and cuts on the back of his head. Trayvon's knuckles had cuts on them, which is what happens when you punch something hard. But otherwise, Trayvon had no marks other than a gunshot wound to the chest. He wasn't punched, kicked, or anything else. And he had grass stains on his knees. Indicative of him being on top of someone on the ground.

Basically, we know that Trayvon Martin punched George Zimmerman. We know that Trayvon Martin was on top of George Zimmerman when he was shot. There isn't even a reason to argue about it.


What are the grounds exactly for a murder two charge?

Witness accounts have varied. We don't know who initiated the fight. Did GZ use fighting words? (Link posted previously) There's a h*ll of a difference between saying, "can I help you?" and "What the h*ll are you doing here, punk?"

Originally Posted by Bosco55David

The problem here though, is that doesn't show who initiated the confrontation. From what I've read of the case, it seems most likely that Zimmerman, not Martin, initiated the confrontation.

I agree.

[Evenstar51]

Originally Posted by gunlover

yes..we are all sick, but luckly a select few can make us well...every last one of you statist all have a god complex...

so it was all racism, not the fact a man was having his head bashed against the sidewalk...you have to change the fact, change the subject, paint people as "mean" "uncaring" or 'racist"...you have to change the subject, and hide the truth and the results...

God is a statist? Interesting point of view...so "Thou shalt not kill" is just political b.s.? You're new to the forum...you've missed thousands of posts on this subject, many of them containing links to legal documents and evidence. TBS, reading through this current thread illustrates my point; how many have written that they're glad that a "black thug" or "hood rat" is dead? THEY have made it about race, not I.
We have only the word of a proven liar and killer to support the contention that Zimmerman's head was being "bashed against the sidewalk." There were two small cuts that didn't even require stitches on Zimmerman's head...they must make some very smooth concrete in FL if his head showed no evidence of the abrasions one would expect from being pounded on normal concrete. As so many have noted, GZ should have remained in his vehicle and waited to tell LE where Trayvon Martin had gone. He made a different choice, and a teen is dead due to that hubris. Those are the facts, period.

[McBain II]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Edison

But he can't run away from a fat man older than him?

The funny part here is that under the stand your ground law, Trayvon had no legal obligation to flee.

Kinda funny how that works.

Also, wasn't Trayvon shot in the chest? That doesn't sound to me like he was trying to get away from the big fat man.

It seems pretty clear at this point that an altercation between the two happened. How that altercation started is the major factor right now.

Originally Posted by swagger

You seriously believe that twelve people, all of which have been vetted by both the prosecution and the defense, will ALL vote to convict, regardless of the facts of the case?

Seriously?!

You have a lot to learn about the legal process.

People used to the same reasoning in saying Casey Anthony and O.J would be convicted.

Juries are unpredictable.

[jazzarama]

Originally Posted by swagger

You seriously believe that twelve people, all of which have been vetted by both the prosecution and the defense, will ALL vote to convict, regardless of the facts of the case?

Seriously?!

You have a lot to learn about the legal process.

The evidence will be ambiguous, giving jurors plenty of room to do what they want. Jurors will want to punish gz for, among other things, leaving his car, following tm, having a gun, never identifying himself. Some of the same reasons some people around here want him punished. Murder 2 might not fly, but a lesser offense like manslaughter, absolutely.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Redshadowz

If anyone thinks Zimmerman is going to be convicted of murder, they are a complete idiot.

The only way it is possible, is if somehow the prosecution can convince all twelve jurors that George Zimmerman started a fight with Trayvon Martin, then shot him.


Lets refer back to the physical evidence. Trayvon Martin was completely unscathed, outside of a gunshot wound to the chest and cuts on his knuckles(from punching). George Zimmerman had a broken nose and cuts on the back of his head. And the "wetness" on his back was indicative of him being on his back on the ground.


It is pretty clear to anyone with a brain that George Zimmerman was attacked by Trayvon Martin, and was getting beat up pretty bad, with Trayvon Martin actually on top of him on the ground. There is even a witness that saw them on the ground.


Not only is there the physical evidence that shows Zimmerman was assaulted. But there is evidence of Trayvon Martins violent past. And the story that Zimmerman was just walking to his truck when he was attacked by Trayvon, becomes easier and easier to believe.

It is just impossible to get a unanimous guilty verdict based on the evidence. The state has to realize that, and they just need to drop the charges. But they won't, because they want to look impartial.


It seems the people who believe he will be convicted. Don't really believe he committed murder, or even manslaughter. Rather, the real situation seems to be that they are upset that Zimmerman was even following Trayvon to begin with. That he "racially profiled" Trayvon. Or that he was carrying a gun. Basically, their argument is, if he hadn't been carrying a gun, everyone would have lived. Or, if he hadn't been following Trayvon Martin, acting like a vigilante, everyone would have lived. And thus, the reason they believe he should be convicted isn't based on a belief that he actually committed murder. Rather, they think he should be convicted of something, anything. Because their view is, if your actions caused the needless death of another human being. Then that should be illegal.

Pretty much spot on. <bold> Problem is G.Z. could have died from the beating he was receiving. Smashing a head on the ground could certainly cause death or severe trauma. I have to put myself in the position of having a younger more agile and probably stronger person on top of me bouncing my head off the ground. The facts so far show that he was on top of G.Z. (witness) and while many on here don't think G.Z.'s head injury was serious or externally even a boo-boo internally (brain) you've got NO idea what the effect of bouncing off the inside of the skull was.
Would I have shot him under those conditions?
Most likely yes. Would I have wanted him to die? No. Thing is, that's not even a thought process that occurs when in a situation such as this, just ask any warrior or cop.

All these people here talk about that G.Z. should've walked away or whatever right? Well the same could be said for T.M. right? Takes two people to get into a fight like that. T.M. could've chosen to just keep moving on, he could have walked up to someone's door and knocked asking for help, he could've ran away but he did none of those things. He instead decided to confront G.Z. having no idea who or what he was confronting.
Now you've got to put yourself in a young kid's mind, one that it is now understood had a tendency towards violence and was no stranger to a rough crowd. Is it too far of a stretch to think T.M decided "I'm not going to put up with this guy following me" and started getting mouthy and when things got heated they quickly spiraled out of control and he got physical?
T.M. made a couple of bad choices and it cost him his young life. Sad? Certainly. Tragic? You bet. Murder? No.
G.Z. will have to live with this for the rest of his life which may be worse than any jail term he could get. What the message that has to be taken from this whole incidents is bad choices can end in somebody dead. Could've been G.Z. but was T.M.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by jasper12

I personally have issues with a man on neighborhood watch, carrying a gun. That smacks of a man, looking for trouble.

This goes into the problem we have with CCW, and gun ownership in the USA, a minimal background check, and cash is all it takes for a weapon.

Zimmerman will have a hill to climb with a juror like me, who wants to know, why he called 911, and then continued his surveillance, at the point he called 911, Martin was not actively committing a crime, just walking, even if he was '' looking suspicious'', whatever that is.

Zimmerman was a loaded cannon, literally, just looking for action. I don't buy the '' concerned citizen''.

However, that being said, if Martin did attack Zimmerman, Zimmerman has the right to defend himself. Even if he did create the situation for the confrontation.

But, the issue to me, is that Zimmerman has changed his story, I wonder what it will be at trial? And if Zimmerman takes the stand, everything he has said is free game.

Problem with a person on neighborhood watch with a gun or someone with a gun at all?

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by gsupstate

You are right. I'm shocked at how many racist are pro Trayvon and attacking Zimmerman. Trayvon was a thug that picked on the wrong man, and that man defended himself.

Zimmerman stalked the teen, started a fight and then got his ass whipped and shot him. Period. This case is cut and dry to any clear thinking individual.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

Zimmerman stalked the teen, started a fight and then got his ass whipped and shot him. Period. This case is cut and dry to any clear thinking individual.

Depending on what you consider clear thinking. Remove race and remove most everything up until about 60-90 seconds prior to them ending up on the ground with T.M. on top of G.Z..
Why didn't either one flee or back out of the obviously bad situation getting worse?
Doesn't matter what G.Z. said to T.M. at that point. Doesn't almost every parent,teacher,coach or law enforcement officer tell you to just walk away from things like this?
Ever hear "it's just words"? Maybe at school?
Nobody promotes hitting someone for saying something to you, certainly not getting them on the ground and fighting with them.
As for stalking and starting a fight? You can't start a fight with someone who's unwilling to respond.

Now, how about that clear thinking thing?

[Ceege]

Zimmerman was told by the police to stay in his car. He went after Martin, which made Martin the victim. Martin was "standing his ground" by trying to defend himself. Zimmerman is a thug. I doubt if he will get convicted of first degree murder in a state like Florida, but he should.

For all those who keep trying to defend Zimmerman's actions: You had better hope that you, or someone you care about, does not look out of place where they are at, or innocently looks suspicious to someone with a gun trying to prove how tough he is.