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While the BB had better labor prospects relative to the job market in their early adult life, their standard of living comes nowhere to what my generation is afforded. We were not forced to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. We aren't plagued with any drug epidemics. We have much better race relations. Products are cheaper. Consumer technology allows us to have a standard of living Boomers could only dream of having.
I would never give up modern day conveniences to revert to 1950s/1960s full employment.
I apologize but there is a lot of posts I had to wade through. As a millenial, I am not surprised by the blind hatred though I say that there is some BS in the hatred.
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Originally Posted by softblueyz
What are all the whiners of Gen X and Y going to say when they have to explain to their children and grandchildren why the country is the way it is today and the way it will be in the future if we don't make a correction and take this country back? Blame previous presidents - Clinton, Bush, Obama? Blame the BBs?
I hope when they get finished spreading the blame around, their children and grandchildren ask "What did you do to change things?" And then they can tell them how they sat on a forum and bit*hed about it. Seems that's the best that they can do to "change" things rather than fix what is broken and/or accept their own failures.
"What did we do for 'change'" well until we can get some of into office which is as early as 30 for congress, not too much. There are a lot of changes that require money, money we DON'T have. If we had money, then sure I agree with all we did was moan, complain, b*tch and belly-ache.
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Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
I really wonder when it's going to occur to Gen Xers and younger, that one day THEY will be judged as harshly as they judge the generation before them. Perhaps even more harshly, since they lead by example when it comes to blaming others - that's how they are raising their kids and those tables will be turned on them one day as well.
Let's hope they can bear up under the judgment. Karma Karma, people.
well look at everyone that complained about the boomers when they were the millenials age because they protested Vietnam, became hippies, yippies, ect.
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Originally Posted by eRayP
Every generation had to deal with issues. This generation is the most whiney generation that I have ever seen.
In the late 19th century, the Sears catalog became popular in rural America. People simply hung it up on a nail and had a free supply of 100's of pages of absorbent, uncoated paper. Corn cobs were still holding as a strong second place contender, however. Use of the Sears catalog declined in the 1930's due to the fact that they started printing on glossy, clay-coated paper.
This generation will be the most whiney until the next. I am so sure your generation was looked upon as having good work ethic and followership off the bat too.
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Originally Posted by Gtownoe
Every Boomer I've talked to (my business partner is 1) thinks we're in serious trouble and has no reservations admitting that the Economic times right now are much harder then they have been in the past.
Wonder why its so hard for some on here to admit it.
It's not an argument. It's simple math.
I agree, this is the issue. We have pretty low paying jobs, high rent, high gas prices, high food prices, high car prices, high prices to pay for a car, ect. It's not like we are given a silver spoon after we exit college to get us an entry level job. (I'll get to that later.)
FYI other posts you have made are the same as this one and that I agree with.
The Dow Jones closed that year with an average of 858. Last year's close was at 13,000 and today it's at over 15,000.
The biggest lie in there is comparing the stock market then to now. The stock market is up DESPITE a low labor participation rate, high unemployment, high COLs and low wages to match. But looking at the stock market, it would mean we are in a good place. I think something is a miss. Oh wait, the rich are taking advantage of the low rates from the various iterations of Quantitative Easing.
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Originally Posted by eRayP
Young people have suffered more from President Obama’s economic policies than any other demographic. In the last four years, young Americans have seen tuition increase 25 percent, average student loan debt climb to more than $27,000, and gas prices skyrocket. All the while, students have about a 30 percent chance of moving home with their parents after college, and those who are lucky enough to find a job are taking a 6 percent cut in their income.
Optimism is fading and reality has set in. Young Americans couldn’t be more disappointed. But this isn’t stopping President Obama from pandering to them.
I am a millenial, I didn't vote for Obama either time because I could not trust him either time and I didn't like what he stood for.
The fact is, what you say is right but compared to what else you said, it is talking out of both sides of your mouth. You call use "whiney" but yet say it is tough to be us. Is it really being "whiney" when you say complain about the legitimate issues you mentioned.
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Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
Right on.
I do not have a college degree and yet I've been very successful as a sales manager, a realtor, and a bank manager. Oh, and also a director of internet sales for a large television company.
Not ONE of those jobs required a college degree - not even in the past five years. Now - you had to have either a degree or the experience to compensate for one - but that's always been the case, even when I first began working in 1975.
Nor did entry level jobs look for two-three years worth experience WITH a degree. It is rare I find a job that can even substitute a college degree for actual experience.
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person
I blame the Greatest Generation because they offshored jobs, got into wars that were paid for by borrowing, insisted their children go to college, etc.
I am sure some boomers were in the decison making process as well. Particularly for younger millenials and post-millenials.
Last edited by mkpunk; 05-26-2013 at 09:59 PM..
Reason: Added a pre-quote explanation.
Why would my dad and his friends lie about how easy it was to make money? What is the incentive? Instead of taking 1 or 2 companies public a year why are they only doing that many every 5 years?
I bet dear old dad walked to school 18 miles one way and it was up hill both ways too. back then it was.
Of you look in old pics you will see the world was in sepia tome then black and white scale long before color.
Ask dad what a party line way. We used to party hard back then and used the phone to do it.....
Anyone ekle in CD recall the party line beside me?
back then we had rel money that has a real value. The prices might change but the dollar stayed the same with in reason.
A gallon of gas was 25 cents.... oddly that's about what a gallon of gas is today.. You just read the prices wrong.. That $3.38 you see means 25 cents silver. Well it did a few years back when gas was 3.38 and a silver quarter was worth $3.35.
Now may be a better deal if a silver dime is worth $2.40. For 2 dimes $4.80 you can have that gallon of gas and have change left over.
With nothing backing the buck what you see as money is only govt subsidiary. We live in the land of make believe these days. This isn't the USA...
I'm a baby boomer:
1. No one failed out of high school and did well.
2. No one bought a house with a 9-5 job that didn't require a college degree unless it was a trailer or had parental help.
3. No one who worked all summer could afford a corvette.
4. No one worked all summer and could pay for college tuition. Most of us made minimum wage at about $3/hour. One summer I worked 3 jobs, 7 days a week with some days putting in 16 hours, spent next to none of it and almost had $3k. Tuition was $10k.
5. When I got out of college in the early 80's, there was a very deep recession and jobs were very tough to find. I looked for months and finally found a job as a sales assistant in a brokerage house. I felt fortunate to find anything that wasn't McDonalds.
6. I don't know anyone who gets jobs that they don't apply to, this just doesn't even make sense.
7. Unpaid internships are stupid. Find a different field. Find a job that pays. This seems counterintuitive. My son found a part-time job in the field of his choice at 17. In this job market. It can be done. You're being too elitist. Yes it's you.
8. Everyone who is currently working -at some point - had no experience & someone took a chance on him. Set your site lower, pay your dues and garner some humility. Yes you do have to prove yourself.
9. Our generation has paid the most of any generation into social security and most of us will collect little to nothing.
Have now read to post #80. If I'm being repetitious, I apologize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe
Every Boomer I've talked to (my business partner is 1) thinks we're in serious trouble and has no reservations admitting that the Economic times right now are much harder then they have been in the past.
Wonder why its so hard for some on here to admit it.
It's not an argument. It's simple math.
I don't think you've talked to a lot of Boomers then.
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Originally Posted by Gtownoe
Your missing the point though.
You were able to get your start in much better economic times. You were able to save because wages afforded you a living where you weren't working yourself into debt. You were able to take advantage of a healthy job market. Your tuition had not skyrocketed yet. Housing was still affordable.
You started with a lot of advantages over today's youth. Hell, I've seen how much harder things have gotten since I've graduated and its only been 5 years.
I'm not gonna sit here and take away the Boomer's work ethic. A lot of you worked hard and STILL work hard.
All I'm saying is that its much more difficult to gain financial independence in this day and age.
Kathryn gave a good answer, but I'm going to add a bit.
I graduated from college in 1970. In 1971, Pres. Nixon imposed wage and price controls. There was a recession in the early 70s. There was an "energy crisis" in about 1973 that increased the price of all oil-based products, e.g. gasoline, electricity, etc. There was the moral morass of Watergate. And so on. As in Texas, Colorado was in deep s*** in the 80s when the oil industry here collapsed. Back in my hometown of Pittsburgh, the steel industry collapsed. Mortgage interest rates were at about 18% in 1982, when we bought our first house.
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Originally Posted by Gtownoe
Tuition, gas, housing, food, transportation, etc were all cheaper adjusted to inflation in the 60's-70's then they are today.
Please document. I have looked this stuff up in the past. Food and clothing are much cheaper, in constant dollars, than they were in the 70s. Re: clothing, we didn't have all these "made in Bangladesh" clothes we have today. I already explained about gas.
I'm a baby boomer:
1. No one failed out of high school and did well.
2. No one bought a house with a 9-5 job that didn't require a college degree unless it was a trailer or had parental help.
3. No one who worked all summer could afford a corvette.
4. No one worked all summer and could pay for college tuition. Most of us made minimum wage at about $3/hour. One summer I worked 3 jobs, 7 days a week with some days putting in 16 hours, spent next to none of it and almost had $3k. Tuition was $10k.
5. When I got out of college in the early 80's, there was a very deep recession and jobs were very tough to find. I looked for months and finally found a job as a sales assistant in a brokerage house. I felt fortunate to find anything that wasn't McDonalds.
6. I don't know anyone who gets jobs that they don't apply to, this just doesn't even make sense.
7. Unpaid internships are stupid. Find a different field. Find a job that pays. This seems counterintuitive. My son found a part-time job in the field of his choice at 17. In this job market. It can be done. You're being too elitist. Yes it's you.
8. Everyone who is currently working -at some point - had no experience & someone took a chance on him. Set your site lower, pay your dues and garner some humility. Yes you do have to prove yourself.
9. Our generation has paid the most of any generation into social security and most of us will collect little to nothing.
Quit feeling sorry for yourself.
1. False. Most of the boomers in my family, including my mom, dad, and step-dad, are all high school drop outs. By their 30s, they ALL had middle class incomes.
2. False. Again, my mom, dad, and step-dad all bought medium price homes without high school diplomas. Since only 29 percent of boomers have college degrees, and most own homes, I'd say you have to be wrong here.
3. Yeah, probably not. Today, I couldn't work all year and afford a corvette, though!
4. Average in-state public tuition was under $1K in the mid-70s. So do the math...you could very easily come up with that with a summer job, even at minimum wage with no over-time. Today, you'd have to make $20K over the summer to pay for tuition out of pocket for the same public universities!
5. The worst recession since the Great Depression didn't happen in the 80s. Sorry.
6. I was offered jobs that I never applied to all the time in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It happens when you have a good work ethic and people see it. Doesn't happen when there are no jobs, though.
7. Today, unless you want to be stuck in a dead-in job, you HAVE to take un-paid internships to gain experience before you will even be offered a decent job in MOST fields. That's just how it is. Glad you were never forced with that choice, though!
8. That's what un-paid internships are for, but you just said you would never do those?!
9. You're going to get little to none? The average boomer is going to get over $500K in social security and most have not paid more than $30K over that into the system. ON TOP OF THAT, all of you who live long enough, are going to get hundreds of thousands of dollars more in medicare benefits than you ever paid in. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. And who is going to pay for that? Gen X and Gen Y. Even more, until 1990, social security taxes were half of what they were from 1990 on, so the idea that you are all paying more than anyone else is false. Gen X and Gen Y are paying double! And we are going to be responsbile. for taking care of 80 million boomers for 30+ years...and there are less of us to bear the burden.
And who is whining? I hear a lot about how hard it is going to be to retire because everyone's retirement savings has been wiped out. But oh, look here:
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The inflation–adjusted wealth of people nearing retirement—those ages 53 to 58 in 2006—declined overall by a modest 2.8 percent by 2010, calculates economist Alan Gustman of Dartmouth University, Thomas Steinmeier, economist at Texas Tech University, and Nahid Tabatabai, research associate at Dartmouth. The change in the wealth of median households was 4.3 percent—from $649,000 to $621,000. “We thought the early boomers would be an enormously vulnerable group,†says Gustman. “So we looked back and the answer was: not much happened.â€
“Ever since we Gen-X/Yers began working, we've paid 12.4 percent of our earnings to Social Security,†he wrote. “In contrast, the Boomers will get a bargain. When they entered the workforce in the late 1960s, they paid only 6.5 percent of their earnings to Social Security. Only from 1990 on, when the Boomers had earned paychecks for a quarter-century, did they start paying 12.4 percent to Social Security, the same percentage we Gen-X/Yers have paid our whole lives.†That’s why Firey dubbed it The Boomers’ Bargain: “They've paid less of their earnings into Social Security than we Gen-X/Yers, yet they'll receive more in benefits than we will and we'll pick up the tab.â€
For the record, I'm not whining. I'm just tired of hearing boomers whine about how my generation is a bunch of slackers, when every generation says the same thing about younger generations. The boomers parents said the same things about them! I'm also tired of hearing about how hard they have had it, when clearly, it wasn't that hard. They had the best economy our country has EVER seen. Yes, there were a few rough years, but overall, the BEST ECONOMY our country has EVER seen...and will probably ever see again. Just be grateful and chill, please.
And since everyone is throwing out anecdotes, I will throw out mine. I'm in my twenties. So is my SO. Neither of us have ever owned expensive cell phones or had cable television. I didn't get a cell phone until I was renting a house without a landline. I had that until I got a house will a landline. Since then, I've had the same $30 cell phone and put about $10 worth of minutes on it a year to have for emergencies in the car. I have never and will never own a new car. Every car I have has been at least 10 years old when it was bought, and I paid cash. Same goes for my SO.
Today, I own a 13 year old car that cost $1600! It should last AT LEAST another 10 years, and I am so grateful for it. I can't imagine having anything else.
I have no debt other than some modest student loans. I never qualified for financial aid, and my parents did not help me with anything.
I have been working since I was 15. During the beginning the recession, I was out of work due to a near-death type illness and recovering from a major surgery. The doctors told me I could not and should not work. I would have qualified for every form of welfare. Instead, I packed my ass up and moved 3 hours away because there were absolutely no jobs and a 20 percent unemployment rate where I lived. I rented a room in the ghetto just to take a minimum wage job.
My SO has also packed up and moved on two different occasions just for job opportunities. And none of them were glamorous.
In contrast, my boomer parents never did anything like what I described. They always had multiple cars with loans...they always had cable....always had credit card debt. None of them have high school dimplomas, yet all of them make middle class incomes. And all of them constantly get financial help from their parents, even during middle age!!
If you see spoiled, entitled brats in their 20s, you can bet your life that they are acting just as their boomer parents taught them to act. I would be acting the same way if I had watched and followed my parents actions. I seriously doubt that most boomers were taught the lifestyle they live from their parents, so I don't know what the heck went wrong. My grandpa had a huge influence in my life. He was a kid during the great depression and taught me what hard work and thrift was. He also taught me was wants vs needs were. When he died, he only had a few possessions left because he had given everything away to those he thought were in more need...all he had was second hand. Today, I own about two things that are not second hand. I don't make a lot, but I work my butt off, and will do fine even without all the prosperity that my parents had handed to them. And I will raise my kid to do the same, and not whine about him because I KNOW he will have the right values modeled for him!
4. Average in-state public tuition was under $1K in the mid-70s. So do the math...you could very easily come up with that with a summer job, even at minimum wage with no over-time. Today, you'd have to make $20K over the summer to pay for tuition out of pocket for the same public universities!
Can you provide a source for that? I attended college in 1980 and beyond and my in state public tuition costs were quite a bit more than $1k for the year. (Sorry - not the mid 1970s but I can't help when I graduated!). I went to a small community college and for a full load, my tuition was about $3500.00 for the entire year, which translates to about $10,000 today.
In fact, using an inflation calculator, I figured the cost in tuition and fees per credit hour from 1980 vs today and lo and behold, they are nearly identical! In fact, the cost was slightly higher for 1980 than it is today at various state universities.
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5. The worst recession since the Great Depression didn't happen in the 80s. Sorry.
There was a serious recession in the mid 1970s - with unemployment averaging 9 percent. In the recession of 1980 unemployment was at nearly 8 percent and then climbed to nearly 11 percent consistently through the early 1980s. Then in the early 1990s, unemployment reached nearly 8 percent AGAIN.
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7. Today, unless you want to be stuck in a dead-in job, you HAVE to take un-paid internships to gain experience before you will even be offered a decent job in MOST fields. That's just how it is. Glad you were never forced with that choice, though!
Too many variables involved to make this blanket statement - sorry.
Most employers are more impressed with a steady work history during high school and college than an unpaid internship tacked on when one is 21 years old, and little or no "real job" prior to that.
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9. You're going to get little to none? The average boomer is going to get over $500K in social security and most have not paid more than $30K over that into the system. ON TOP OF THAT, all of you who live long enough, are going to get hundreds of thousands of dollars more in medicare benefits than you ever paid in. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. And who is going to pay for that? Gen X and Gen Y. Even more, until 1990, social security taxes were half of what they were from 1990 on, so the idea that you are all paying more than anyone else is false. Gen X and Gen Y are paying double! And we are going to be responsbile. for taking care of 80 million boomers for 30+ years...and there are less of us to bear the burden.
Most Baby Boomers have been working steadily through the 1990s, so they've been "paying double" since before Gen Xers. Also, Social Security is not paid only by workers - it's also paid by employers for each worker who is also paying SS, so that amount is actually double (employee pays half, employer pays half).
Thanks to Baby Boomers, since 1982, income INTO SS programs has exceeded output. As Baby Boomers continue to retire, these expenditures will outpace interest revenue, but will still be covered by tax revenue for some years. The break even point will be about the year 2041 give or take a few years. Lucky me - that's when I'll be turning 79 and since women in my family typically live well into their 80s in good health, I'll get to spend my final years with a pay cut!
The system is far from perfect, thanks actually to medical technology which has extended lifespans - something that was not considered when the SS system was put into place.
It's not our fault that we're the largest generation ever born - and it's not your fault that you're one of the smallest generations ever born. There's no point in trying to assign blame - it's just time to roll up our sleeves together and try to solve these problems. Most Boomers don't plan on retiring till well into their seventies - not at age 62 or 65 like their parents did. So most will not be tapping into SS till later. That's one way that the issue will be helped. As long as we're working, well into what many consider our elderly years, we'll be paying into SS right alongside you. Honestly, what more can we ask of each other?
Gen X and Y will face the same issue if they don't increase their birth rates - the same issue that BBers have of being a larger generation than the next generation of workers coming up from behind. Considering that our birth rates CONTINUE to plummet, and are the lowest since 1920, I'd say that Gen Xers and Yers haven't really addressed the same issue they're complaining about.
You're next up! Sorry! Pot, meet kettle!
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For the record, I'm not whining. I'm just tired of hearing boomers whine about how my generation is a bunch of slackers, when every generation says the same thing about younger generations. The boomers parents said the same things about them!
Trust me - you'll be saying the same thing about the generation coming behind you. I guess it's human nature. And they'll be saying the same things about YOU that your generation is saying about Baby Boomers! It's funny, really.
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I'm also tired of hearing about how hard they have had it, when clearly, it wasn't that hard. They had the best economy our country has EVER seen. Yes, there were a few rough years, but overall, the BEST ECONOMY our country has EVER seen...and will probably ever see again. Just be grateful and chill, please.
OMG. Clearly, many years of BB existence HAVE BEEN "that hard." We've had some good years, and some bad years. You will too.
We had a HOUSING BUBBLE - which resulted in a huge downturn in our economy - in many cases just a few years or a decade or so from when we planned to retire. Yes, while we are still working, still paying for houses, paying for college educations for our adult kids who are now living at home longer than ever, and also often simultaneously taking care of our aging parents, all hell broke loose in the economy. It hit us just as hard as it's hit you.
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And since everyone is throwing out anecdotes, I will throw out mine. I'm in my twenties. So is my SO. Neither of us have ever owned expensive cell phones or had cable television. I didn't get a cell phone until I was renting a house without a landline. I had that until I got a house will a landline. Since then, I've had the same $30 cell phone and put about $10 worth of minutes on it a year to have for emergencies in the car. I have never and will never own a new car. Every car I have has been at least 10 years old when it was bought, and I paid cash. Same goes for my SO.
Today, I own a 13 year old car that cost $1600! It should last AT LEAST another 10 years, and I am so grateful for it. I can't imagine having anything else.
I have no debt other than some modest student loans. I never qualified for financial aid, and my parents did not help me with anything.
I have been working since I was 15. During the beginning the recession, I was out of work due to a near-death type illness and recovering from a major surgery. The doctors told me I could not and should not work. I would have qualified for every form of welfare. Instead, I packed my ass up and moved 3 hours away because there were absolutely no jobs and a 20 percent unemployment rate where I lived. I rented a room in the ghetto just to take a minimum wage job.
My SO has also packed up and moved on two different occasions just for job opportunities. And none of them were glamorous.
You are an exception to the rule.
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In contrast, my boomer parents never did anything like what I described. They always had multiple cars with loans...they always had cable....always had credit card debt. None of them have high school dimplomas, yet all of them make middle class incomes. And all of them constantly get financial help from their parents, even during middle age!!
So are your parents.
Quote:
If you see spoiled, entitled brats in their 20s, you can bet your life that they are acting just as their boomer parents taught them to act. I would be acting the same way if I had watched and followed my parents actions.
So now the actions of adults are the fault of their parents? I don't think so. I believe that ADULTS are responsible for their own actions.
That being said, any BBer parent who enables their adult children needs to take responsibility for their own actions as well!
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I seriously doubt that most boomers were taught the lifestyle they live from their parents, so I don't know what the heck went wrong.
What went wrong? We went no more "wrong" than Gen X or Gen Y has or will. Our grandparents thought our parents' generation "went wrong." Every generation thinks the generation before or after it somehow "went wrong" when the reality is that we all keep making the same mistakes, or mistakes of equal or greater magnitude, than our parents and grandparents before us. Sometimes our efforts to "correct the wrongs of those before us" are actually MORE harmful in the long run! It's the human story.
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My grandpa had a huge influence in my life. He was a kid during the great depression and taught me what hard work and thrift was. He also taught me was wants vs needs were. When he died, he only had a few possessions left because he had given everything away to those he thought were in more need...all he had was second hand. Today, I own about two things that are not second hand. I don't make a lot, but I work my butt off, and will do fine even without all the prosperity that my parents had handed to them. And I will raise my kid to do the same, and not whine about him because I KNOW he will have the right values modeled for him!
It's easy to say what you will do when you have those hypothetical kids. All people who aren't yet parents tend to stand in judgment of those who already are. It's stereotypical and predictable behavior, actually.
By the way, most Baby Boomers didn't have "prosperity handed to them," anymore than you did. As you've heard over and over again on this thread, most BBers were raised pretty austerely.
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