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The part that troubles me is that federal judge signed the order for Verizon to force them to turnover records. Generally it takes probable cause that a specific crimes has been committed by a individual to get such search warrant. Basically IMO this flies in the face of reasonable search like nothing I have ever seen. Basically a general search for probably cause which is what the reasonable search requirement is meant to stop.No different than wire tapping ATT telephone system to look probable cause by all users approved by a federal judge.
Actually, it appears it happens every three months. The difference is, we haven't seen the TOP SECRET court order before, and this court order suggests that the FISA judges are simply blanket-stamping the requests, not determining if they are Constitutional.
I don't know why any of this is coming as a shock to anyone since; the Foreign Intelligence Act was enacted in 1978; it has been argued that the FISA judges have no choice but to "rubber stamp" subpoena requests, or that Patriot Act Extended ended the prohibition under FISA limiting it to foreign nationals. In point of fact this very controversy arose in April of 2008 when the ACLU alleged that the FBI was using national security letters to obtain the same information. During the same period an internal FBI report indicated that the policy for the use of these letters had been violated over 1000 times. That is in part what led to the 2006 revision requiring a FISA court order. Folks may not like it, may oppose it, may even be outraged but is seems like all of the shock and awe is a bit late to the party.
I hate to make this partisan, but conservatives by huge margins have always supported the Patriot Act by HUGE majorities, and Most Democrats have disfavored the Patriot Act. Even during Obama Presidency nearly all of the Senators and members of the House who vote against renewing the Patriot are liberals.
conservatives love the surveillance state, the majority of conservative/republican Senators and House Reps have voted for the Patriot Act over and over. The vast majority of conservatives in polling support the patriot act.
You realize that they were collecting the data. Phone companies don't retain that data very long. If there were a justifiable reason to look in depth at domestic calls, they would have to go to court to obtain further information. That is the understanding I heard from Senator Feinstein who would know.
Obviously I realize that they were/are collecting data. If the issue is that they want a long-term historic record, then the NSA could ask Congress to pass a law requiring phone companies to retain that data for longer periods of time. But instead, the NSA is requiring phone companies to hand over data on a daily basis that I consider personal. In the past, when the government wanted personal information, they went to a judge and explained that they needed a warrant to investigate something specific. They had information and evidence that was compelling enough that the judge would allow them to violate this person's privacy. That's what a warrant to search someone's car, or to search someone's home, or to search someone's office. It's a violation of privacy. That's what a phone tap is, and why it requires a warrant. That's what seizing someone's phone records is, and why it requires a warrant. By law, American citizens are protected from unlawful searches and seizures, from unlawful detainment. It's a Constitutional protection. The government has to explain to a judge the compelling reason it has to violate my rights, and the warrant spells out specifically what the judge has empowered the government to do.
Whom I call, and how long my phone calls last, is my private information. And the government knows this, which is why they are going to great pains to point out that the information they are seizing is metadata, and doesn't have specific identifiers. But that doesn't make the information not private. Especially since identifying the person attached to this account is only one step further. And they have the power to take that step at any time.
What's happened here is that the government has gone to a judge and explained that they needed a warrant to investigate every American in this country, to violate each and every one of us and our privacy, to safeguard our security. It's a tremendous overreach. And that's the reason it's TOP SECRET. Because they are violating the Constitutional Rights of every American.
It's easy to say, well, if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about. It's tantamount to the government saying, TRUST me, I would never take this one step further, unless you make me take it one step further. You don't want to do that. So just TRUST me and shut up. Keep your nose clean. Go along to get along.
This is WRONG. The US Government shouldn't be collecting this private data. And it's private. Otherwise they wouldn't need a court order to get it in the first place. This is Unconstitutional. And the people that this government serves need to tell the government to stop.
I don't know why any of this is coming as a shock to anyone since; the Foreign Intelligence Act was enacted in 1978; it has been argued that the FISA judges have no choice but to "rubber stamp" subpoena requests, or that Patriot Act Extended ended the prohibition under FISA limiting it to foreign nationals. In point of fact this very controversy arose in April of 2008 when the ACLU alleged that the FBI was using national security letters to obtain the same information. During the same period an internal FBI report indicated that the policy for the use of these letters had been violated over 1000 times. That is in part what led to the 2006 revision requiring a FISA court order. Folks may not like it, may oppose it, may even be outraged but is seems like all of the shock and awe is a bit late to the party.
That's what I mean Americans kill me with their fake outrage. Again the Patriot Act which the majority of Americans supported was said to be all about spying. Civil Libertarian/Liberal groups vehemently opposed the Patriot Act. I remember the discussions at the time.
Now much like the Iraqi war, nobody supported something that indeed the majority of Americans supported, and certainly the vast majority of conservatives supported.
I don't know why any of this is coming as a shock to anyone since; the Foreign Intelligence Act was enacted in 1978; it has been argued that the FISA judges have no choice but to "rubber stamp" subpoena requests, or that Patriot Act Extended ended the prohibition under FISA limiting it to foreign nationals. In point of fact this very controversy arose in April of 2008 when the ACLU alleged that the FBI was using national security letters to obtain the same information. During the same period an internal FBI report indicated that the policy for the use of these letters had been violated over 1000 times. That is in part what led to the 2006 revision requiring a FISA court order. Folks may not like it, may oppose it, may even be outraged but is seems like all of the shock and awe is a bit late to the party.
Having the Court Order is potentially a game changer. It's something hard and substantive, that people can use as the basis of a lawsuit. It's been argued, it's been alleged, it's been indicated....all of that's tenuous and vague. A court order is something tangible, something real, it's right there in black and white, that anyone can see and read. TOP SECRET, not to be revealed to the public until 2038. Sorry, not top secret anymore.
Saxby Chambliss standings side by side with Diane Feinstein to defend the National Security Agency is like George Wallace and Martin Luther King standing together when Vivian Jones walked into the University of Alabama.
So while I can understand the Jeff Greenwalds on the left throwing a hissy-fit I find it rather bizarre for right wing conservatives getting the panties all in a bunch.
PS - most of this flurry of intelligence skullduggery took place around the time of the Boston bombing.
Man Americans kill me. The Patriot Act has been law for over a decade. People were saying hey these expanded powers will lead to them spying on Americans, and yet its been renewed multiple times, very few people protest when the Patriot Act is renewed. I have never heard of a politician losing for voting for the Patriot Act, and in poll after poll huge majorities of conservatives say they support the Patriot Act.
The same people who supported the US government indefinitely detaining people for years and STILL support it. The same people who supported our government torturing people, now want to pretend to be outraged about a law that has been on the books for over a decade.
Here is the section of the Patriot Act that the government used to do this, with and explanation and support for the law coming from the Heritage foundation.
2. Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act: Business Record Orders under FISA. Domestic prosecutors routinely rely on business records and other concrete evidence to prove a wide variety of criminal charges from simple theft to homicide. Law enforcement, working with local prosecutors, acquires this evidence throughout the course of an investigation, often through the use of a subpoena. However, national security agents did not have the same authority to acquire similar evidence prior to the passage of Section 215. They had to obtain a court order and were limited to those records held by a business that was a “common carrier, public accommodation facility, physical storage facility or vehicle rental facility.”
Section 215 eliminated those arbitrary, dangerously narrow and self-limiting provisions but required that the records sought are relevant to an authorized investigation. However, unlike a standard prosecutor-issued subpoena, or even a grand jury subpoena, an order issued under Section 215 requires FISA court approval. In other words, Congress inserted a federal judge between investigators and potential suspects.
Furthermore, the law requires substantial congressional oversight.
This provision allows law enforcement, with approval from the FISA court, to require disclosure of documents and other records from businesses and other institutions without a suspect’s knowledge. Third-party recipients of Section 215 orders can appeal the order to the FISA court.
Section 215 further protects civil liberties by requiring additional approval for document requests that might have the slightest relation to freedom of speech and expression, such as library records.
As Wainstein testified, “There is no reason to return to the days when it is easier for prosecutors to secure records in a simple assault prosecution than for national security investigators to obtain records that may help prevent the next 9/11.”
I hate to make this partisan, but conservatives by huge margins have always supported the Patriot Act by HUGE majorities, and Most Democrats have disfavored the Patriot Act. Even during Obama Presidency nearly all of the Senators and members of the House who vote against renewing the Patriot are liberals.
conservatives love the surveillance state, the majority of conservative/republican Senators and House Reps have voted for the Patriot Act over and over. The vast majority of conservatives in polling support the patriot act.
This reality should not be lost on any one.
You DO know that Joe Biden authored the PA don't you? LMAO!
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