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Nobody stops anybody from praying in school. But when you use a platform for means of forcing that prayer onto others, in a public school, you explicitly violate that separation that the founding fathers, you loved so much, loved so much.
I disagree. Freedom of/from religion does not mean that you cannot and should not be exposed to religious doctrine in your daily life. For that would clearly mean that you are restricting other people's right to worship as they see fit.
There is a difference between a person speaking on behalf of a public institution and a person speaking on behalf of himself/herself. A Valedictorian giving a speech gives a person speech and he/she has every right to express religious viewpoints.
This, of course, is a separate issue from ripping up a pre-approved speech. That, clearly, is a violation of school policy - but it has nothing to do with the content of the non-approved speech being of a religious nature.
This explanation probably makes the most sense to me from what I can gather.
I'm a Christian. But usually when I say the Lord's Prayer, it's for personal strength and to strengthen (from my side) my connection with God. These types of instances usually seem about grandstanding and making a point more than the actual purpose of the prayer.
Yes - I see it as grandstanding as well. I don't find the content offensive, I find the action inappropriate and not befitting Christian values.
You have obviously never been a teacher/administrator in the 4th largest school district in the US. Without ground rules as to what can/cannot be said/done during the 120+ student (not necessarily the val/sal) authored commencement speeches given every June, there would be no way guarantee a dignified ceremony for all participants.
Re the bolded text: there are posters on this thread who would find anything that is contrary to their religious views to be inherently disrespectful and they would protest it vehemently, particularly if it were being said/done at a public school event.
There actually was a time kids at school could mention God and people either believed or not......now it's taken as offensive and I think some people are finding they have to make a stand. You people don't mind standing up for Latinos rights to speak Spanish in America, Islam Imans are now in Tennessee asking for people to be punished for insulting Islam. Your worried about one valedictorian making a stand for God!
Schools can't lead audiences in prayer. The school had been doing so, and received complaints. So the school canceled all school-led prayers. The valedictorian makes a speech during graduation. This student submits the speech to the school beforehand, so the school can make sure the speech is acceptable. Since the school is providing the student with a podium, they are in effect endorsing what the student says. The school may have a rule that prohibits students from straying from their pre-approved speech, in which case the student broke that rule. There is no rule banning prayer.
I see absolutely no problem with this as this was one person's words and the school had nothing to do with it. I'd feel the same if it were someone of any other faith doing the same thing. Things like this just provoke more knee-jerk reactions from those who hate religion and want it expunged from society. Sites like Reddit are overflowing with hateful comments on stories like this, with vile intolerance for religion and loathing of it's adherents that make CD seem moderate by comparison.
I disagree. Freedom of/from religion does not mean that you cannot and should not be exposed to religious doctrine in your daily life. For that would clearly mean that you are restricting other people's right to worship as they see fit.
There is a difference between a person speaking on behalf of a public institution and a person speaking on behalf of himself/herself. A Valedictorian giving a speech gives a person speech and he/she has every right to express religious viewpoints.
This, of course, is a separate issue from ripping up a pre-approved speech. That, clearly, is a violation of school policy - but it has nothing to do with the content of the non-approved speech being of a religious nature.
Daily life and school are two different animals and not the topic of this discussion. KSmith stated that school does not restrict regious practice...within reason.
A student can meet with others at the flag pole for morning prayer...they can't stay out there all day praying.
Daily life and school are two different animals and not the topic of this discussion. KSmith stated that school does not restrict regious practice...within reason.
A student can meet with others at the flag pole for morning prayer...they can't stay out there all day praying.
See the difference?
Exactly.
I went to a public high school in the south and everywhere you looked there was someone carrying a bible or wearing a Christian t shirt. Those actions are not forbidden, only when you use your time at a podium to proselytize (assuming his entire graduating class wasn't a Christian) it becomes a problem.
Every single day, we lose more rights. However, sometimes traditional behaviors violate our laws or the self-perceived right of one person infringes on the actual right of others.
As a general statement I agree.
Quote:
With religion, it has been established that government cannot restrict the free exercise of religion. Our courts have determined that asking non-believers of a particular religion to abide by the rules of this religion is an infringement of THEIR rights. It has also been established that any affiliation of a public institution with a particular religion violates the idea that government cannot infringe on the rights of those who do not share this faith.
I could get into technicalities by asking what you mean by "any affiliations" but I will say once again, technicalities aside in general I agree.
Quote:
That, to me, is most certainly not an erosion of rights - it's the establishment of a right. It just happens that the group traditionally infringing on other people's rights is large, vocal, and unhappy about losing what they have, understandably, seen perfectly acceptable. Those others, however, have raised their voices and proclaimed that this is an untenable situation under the law.
Being that you are generalizing I can only agree that there are times that happens.
Nobody stops anybody from praying in school. But when you use a platform for means of forcing that prayer onto others, in a public school, you explicitly violate that separation that the founding fathers, you loved so much, loved so much.
Fact remains the entirety of the audience was subject to the Lords Prayer during a public event. Its a fine line, certainly, perhaps he should have simply said "lets bow our heads in prayer before we begin," that probably would have slided (although it still singled out the agnostics).
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Without ground rules as to what can/cannot be said/done during the 120+ student (not necessarily the val/sal) authored commencement speeches given every June, there would be no way guarantee a dignified ceremony for all participants.
