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I mean, it's not embarrassing at all for some 16 year old boy to tell his friends his Dad left his mom for a dude
What planet are some of you people from anyway?
But it is cool if his dad ran off with another woman? Leaving a spouse for another person is always going to have some sort of negative effect. It still isn't a valid reason to be against same sex marriage.
There is no guarantee of that with Christian parents either.
Christian parents are the ones most likey to disown their child that they loved prior to their child coming out to them as gay, trusting his/her parents to love them unconditionally and then discover that that love is not unconditional. I really do not understand how a parent can have a child, love them dearly, do anything to protect that child and nourish them, then disown them and throw them out on the street. To stop loving and caring for that child just for being gay tells me that they never really loved their child to begin with.
...It still isn't a valid reason to be against same sex marriage.
There IS no valid reason to oppose same sex marriage. There isn't even a reason based on...reason.
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Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer
Christian parents are the ones most likey to disown their child that they loved prior to their child coming out to them as gay, trusting his/her parents to love them unconditionally and then discover that that love is not unconditional. I really do not understand how a parent can have a child, love them dearly, do anything to protect that child and nourish them, then disown them and throw them out on the street. To stop loving and caring for that child just for being gay tells me that they never really loved their child to begin with.
Unfortunately I have seen this happen more than once. It's shameful. I had a friend whose parents kicked him out when he came out to them (based on their religious beliefs) so he couch toured with me and my friends. We helped take care of him. He had leukemia and his parents never once came to visit him while he was dying.
After he died, we all chipped in and got him a tombstone. He already had funeral arrangements.
When his parents found out, they had his body disinterred and re-buried with no parker, so it would be as if he never existed.
If the is a Hell, there should be a special circle set aside for those parents.
But it is cool if his dad ran off with another woman? Leaving a spouse for another person is always going to have some sort of negative effect. It still isn't a valid reason to be against same sex marriage.
It's understandable to men. The kid tells his friends his parents are getting a divorce. Nothing new, kids understand. Then someone finds out his Dad has went gay, then it hits facebook.
I know of exactly this situation going on right now, someone I know at work. Her husband left her and said he's gay all of a sudden. They have teenage boys. One was a straight A student and now is too embarrassed to go to school, poor kid. I feel so bad for him.
His Dad has to be the most self centered jerk in history.
So now he can turn around and marry some dude legally. Whatever, just keep piling the embarrassment on your sons. Just so YOU are happy right? That's what this society is all about, whatever FUBAR random thought flies through your head, act on it and damn the consequences.
This is why I want government completely out of marriage. No tax breaks, no incentives at all. I don't want to see that behavior encouraged by a government that I support through my taxes.
It's understandable to men. The kid tells his friends his parents are getting a divorce. Nothing new, kids understand. Then someone finds out his Dad has went gay, then it hits facebook.
I know of exactly this situation going on right now, someone I know at work. Her husband left her and said he's gay all of a sudden. They have teenage boys. One was a straight A student and now is too embarrassed to go to school, poor kid. I feel so bad for him.
His Dad has to be the most self centered jerk in history.
So now he can turn around and marry some dude legally. Whatever, just keep piling the embarrassment on your sons. Just so YOU are happy right? That's what this society is all about, whatever FUBAR random thought flies through your head, act on it and damn the consequences.
This is why I want government completely out of marriage. No tax breaks, no incentives at all. I don't want to see that behavior encouraged by a government that I support through my taxes.
None of the above is relevant to either:
1) Why government should or should not be in the marriage business, or
It's understandable to men. The kid tells his friends his parents are getting a divorce. Nothing new, kids understand. Then someone finds out his Dad has went gay, then it hits facebook.
I know of exactly this situation going on right now, someone I know at work. Her husband left her and said he's gay all of a sudden. They have teenage boys. One was a straight A student and now is too embarrassed to go to school, poor kid. I feel so bad for him.
His Dad has to be the most self centered jerk in history.
So now he can turn around and marry some dude legally. Whatever, just keep piling the embarrassment on your sons. Just so YOU are happy right? That's what this society is all about, whatever FUBAR random thought flies through your head, act on it and damn the consequences.
This is why I want government completely out of marriage. No tax breaks, no incentives at all. I don't want to see that behavior encouraged by a government that I support through my taxes.
No, the father did not suddenly turn gay, he has most likely been gay, or at least bisexual all of his life.
"This above all: to thine ownself be true, And it must follow, as the night and day, Thou canst not then be false to any man"
The greatest act of love towards another is living a life that is truthful, now the father you mentioned is living a truthful life. There is nothing there to suggest that he is as you say, "the most self centered jerk in history".
That is basically what it comes down to. I can most identify with the Libertarian position; I may not be entirely comfortable with all of your positions but I should not stand in the way of your personal Liberties as a fellow American.
Let's think about this for a second. Bearing in mind the two supposed different conception of liberty: positive liberty vs negative liberty. The libertarians supposedly the harbingers of the latter.
Both the Democrats and Republicans tend to champion both types depending on their agenda. And only depending on their agenda. A Democrat will be for negative liberty when it concerns abortion but for positive liberty when it concerns forcing drug addicts into rehab (the libertarian would before decriminalizing drug obsession/use and allowing the addict their choice to enter rehab or not). I have yet to run into a feminist Democrat that is pro-choice about who a woman chooses to sleep with, date, or marry if that person is a man. They all tell a woman what to do and think in that situation. As positive liberty/freedom is essentially the conception of freedom religions have: interior freedom resulting from "self awareness" and only a large body of people can determine if the person is free and not the individual themselves.
This is why both Democrats and Republicans so staunchly tell people what they should believe.
Negative liberty basically says: Free from X to do or not do Y. It's actual formula is says a bit more than that but I think that suffices for this post to get the point across it's about being free from external coercions.
How much liberty does any individual have if the government is involved in their sex lives? Consenting adults that is.
Gay marriage is not about liberty. It's about getting a society regard what was always thought immoral as moral. Just as lobbying for 30 year olds to be allowed to marry 10 year olds would not have a goal of liberty but one of trying to changes societal values.
If other animals on earth do not have "marriages" and if their sex lives are not regulated by a government body within their species, then just with the term "liberty" we need to address what does this term "marriage" mean and what s it's purpose.
In medieval Europe, marriage was governed by canon law, which recognised as valid only those marriages where the parties stated they took one another as husband and wife, regardless of the presence or absence of witnesses. It was not necessary, however, to be married by any official or cleric. This institution was cancelled in England with the enactment of "Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act" of 1753, which required that, in order to be valid and registered, all marriages were to be performed in an official ceremony in a religious setting recognised by the state, i.e. Church of England, the Quakers, or in a Jewish ceremony. Any other form of marriage was abolished. Children born into unions which were not valid under the Act would not automatically inherit the property or titles of their parents.
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Civil marriage and other unions of same-sex couples
In 29 countries worldwide and 12 states within the U.S., a same-sex couple can be legally partnered in a civil union or registered partnership. Couples in these partnerships are afforded rights and obligations similar to, but not identical to, those of a married couple.
In the 1960s homosexuals basically said all they wanted was to be left alone to live their lives, essentially they did not want to overthrow the mores of their societies.
I suppose it is natural for people to want more and more. One car is not enough we want two. We increasingly want a bigger house to live in. We want "more rights" as it is too.
A question I never see anyone asking, but even in my short life it seems pretty evident: What happens after gay marriage is legal and normalized? No more fights to wage in "more rights" for sex?
How can the political and social liberal identify themselves without something to dismantle? How can the conservative identify themselves without something to conserve?
My view is that after gay marriage is normalized in societies that conservatives will accept it, the Catholic Church will even reconcile with it to the extent it does with Islamic polygynous marriages, and that liberals will find a new war to wage in sex and marriage. Perhaps polygamy. Perhaps even pedophilia (hey, no one in the 1950s would ever had imagine pro-choice legalized abortion would be legal, normalized, and widespread throughout the United States--and originally the pro-choice feminist claimed only a very few women would procure abortions). I think the conservatives will then battle for protecting monogamous gay and hetero marriages and trying to legislate against polygamy (homosexual or heterosexual).
It seems to me the best way to reconcile the marriage issue would be to end government involvement in marriages altogether. Allow people marry within their own religions or their own way period. So, homosexual and heterosexual marriages all could take place and so could polygamy.
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