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She did not put them in a position to rape her but she did put herself in a vulnerable position to be taken advantage of in one way or another. I haven't followed this case but I wonder where her friends were at. It would have been helpful (if she had friends around) that they looked out for each other.
Everything you said is true. However, here is one thing you continue to miss: First off, these two men, boys, whatever are, as of this moment, innocent. These are just allegations against them and they will, perhaps, have their day in court. Until then, they haven't legally done anything.
Second. Her level of intoxication has a MAJOR bearing on the criminal investigation in this case. While most states, being too intoxicated to consent, makes it rape, brings up many issues. How drunk was she truly? If she had two beers, consented to the sex, then woke up the next morning with "buyers remorse" (yes, happens all day, everyday, all across this country) then screams "rape" because she was too intoxicated to remember?
Third, if this is the case, what truly happened? If she can't remember saying no, because of her intoxication level, what can she remember? How does she remember anything at all specific, except for a few minor vague details? Which, like it or not, causes major problems with her story in a court of law.
NO ONE is saying she deserves to be raped. At the same time, personal responsibility is what is needed in this country. Your arguments are akin of putting a 10 carat diamond ring out on the sidewalk unprotected. And then when its stolen say, "Its not my fault it was stolen." No. Its not. People shouldn't be criminals. However, had you taken some basic precautions, your ring probably wouldn't have been stolen. There is a reason there is a billion dollar industry in security. Door locks, alarms, etc to make it difficult for criminals to break into your house.
Had this woman just used some basic common sense and personal protection, she wouldn't be in the situation she is in. That is what Serena Williams was referring too. Not blaming her for what occurred, however, and rightfully so, blaming her for putting herself in a bad situation.
You don't walk down the streets of Watts at 1am on Friday night as a white person. There are reasons for that.
There is no such thing as implied consent because you are drunk. If someone isn't coherent or conscious enough to say yes, that means no.
We need to train boys to be responsible instead of training girls to be wary.
Let's take a step back. Why are women (and girls) in charge of making sure they "don't put themselves in a position to be raped."
Actually, jade, I think members of both sex are wiser to reduce their likelihood of being harmed or robbed in anyway.
My views also stem--like I suspect with Serena Williams--from living in the inner-city where your first line of defense is you, or you and your homies or home girls. The police usually arrive after the facts to tape off the scene.
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Women (girls) are taught from a young age to not stay out too late, walk home alone (especially somewhere dark or deserted), dress modestly (you know to arouse the rapists), not drink to much, watch your drink like a hawk just in case someone wants to slip something in your drink. Etc.
Okay, LOL. I come from a generation (Gen X) in Milwaukee where it was common for kids of both sexes to be told to come in the house when the street lights come on.
And if humans are animals--as atheists and anthropologists like to keep reminding us--then perhaps young women would be wise to dress modestly when walking around at night by themselves.
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When was the last time you heard a man (boy) trained in the same manner not to rape women. Or encouraged to protect women from being raped by standing up to other men (boys) acting inappropriately etc.
I think those are frequent expectations upon boys. And contemporary American society does not tell boys to go out and rape women that its acceptable.
You have a lot of tension between "old school" traditional values about sex and how to treat a female and the newer school that promotes females as smarter, more capable, wiser, and at 130 lbs capable of knocking down a 300 lbs muscle man with several punches.
My opinion is that girls and women are indoctrinated in the U.S. with a false perception of what "they can handle and do."
But "gender" issues as they overlap with biological sex (XY; XX) become a source of confusion to younger folks I think, as contradictory messages are sent. Play high school football with a girl, boxer in the ring, she can kick your a__, but "treat her like a 'lady.'" The concept of "lady" being a gender concept that's the opposite gender of "football" and "boxer."
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Our society trains women (girls) from a young age that we are responsible for preventing rape, by not placing ourselves in a vulnerable position. Why arent men (boys) admonished and trained the same way.
Male rape victims are not given the same sympathy. Unless for some odd reason they are younger than 18. (Plenty of big a__ 16 year old boys larger than adult men.)
And American men typically wish males convicted of felonies receive gang rape in U.S. prisons. It';s thought funny and just by most U.S. citizens. A 19 year old man steals a car? You'll read comments under Yahoo news article like, "I hope he get butt raped in prison."
You don't hear U.S. men or women stating, "I hope she gets raped by several men," as punishment for intentionally drowning her infant or setting her boyfriend on fire.
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It doesn't matter if you make the stupidest decisions in the world, I am a woman am not responsible for making sure people don't act like idiots and assult me. I have no control over that. Party girls get raped. Nuns get raped. Little girls get raped. Elderly women get raped. Why don't we teach men not to rape, instead of making women responsible for not "putting themselves at risk for rape."
Serena has just bought into societal messaging. It just illustrates we have a lot of work to do.
We can teach against immorality and law breaking all we want. Liberals and atheists will at some point teach against sexual morality. But morality and crime can be different. There too Mexican Cartel, U.S. gangs, mafia, biker clubs... will teach against following all the laws. And individuals for one reason or another, not in gangs or criminal organizations, will break one or more laws.
That's why we have police, courts, lawyers, jails, and prisons. Because society needs tools of punishment to prod people to do right.
Like hell. If everyone knew they were going to heaven (and no punishments on earth) for raping girls and women or taking what you want from others (e.g., cars, money, houses, jewelry) then most people would do just that, in my mind. Only a minority would not out of total love of neighbor (or God).
Most of us require rewards to prod us to do good and punishments to motivate us not to do good.
There is no such thing as implied consent because you are drunk. If someone isn't coherent or conscious enough to say yes, that means no.
We need to train boys to be responsible instead of training girls to be wary.
Hear, hear. There is NO justification in any way for raping someone. Ever. No justification.
I was at a party once about half my life ago where a young lady had pretty much blacked out drunk. A guy started trying to pick her up and carry her to a bedroom. Me and two other guys intervened.
I remember I said "Hey man--have you ever tried to pick up your teeth with broken fingers? You're fixin' to find out how that feels."
Play competitive sports professionally
Wear revealing clothes or skirts that are too short. (there a few of her in a bikini..)
Doesn't seem like she is a "follower"..
More religious hypocrisy.
So much for my support of women's tennis in those skimpy clothes.
Does that mean that they should all be raped?
Last edited by chielgirl; 06-22-2013 at 03:14 AM..
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