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Old 11-23-2007, 08:31 PM
 
Location: In the desert
4,049 posts, read 2,742,119 times
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[quote=goldengrain;2073397]

Quote:
I heard one of his teachers interviewed, and the guy actually said this. When confronted with the problems of the poor in the world, his response was that they should work harder. No thought that some are born into wealth or have a better education, etc. THe teacher said his thought was that those who are not well off deserve it. That they are all lazy. This was done while W was in front of his class giving a report on some study he was assigned.
Our president isn't even good at hiding his attitude of "I am better than you".Unfortunetly, I think that some people get that same feeling from people with wealth. There are some who try to let the less fortunate know that they have more,are smarter,etc and talk "down"to those less fortunate. I have seen this done and everytime I have witnessed this,I cringe.



Quote:
Frankly, I think his coldness is from his mom. I think he may have been so desperate for her approval that he emulated her reactions to others as much as he knew how when he was growing up. Turned him into a little robot man, out of touch with his own reality.

I agree. I heard something his mom said when the victims of Katrina were all crowded together about "them being better off now than they were" and I thought what a heartless woman she is.
Very sad.

 
Old 11-23-2007, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 2,110,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky1 View Post
And how can the scientific method prove a "big bang." If I recall it is called the "big bang theory."
People are more than willing to accept this on faith. Not proof. How is this scientific?
I thought we were talking about evolution. I haven't read enough about the big bang theory to comment on this.

Though, I did take 2 years of astronomy in college, and they never even taught the big bang theory. I'm not sure if it's officially a scientific theory either. I know it's called a theory, but like I said, I don't know enough about it.

Oh, I do know that there is pretty solid proof that our galaxy, and presumably the universe, is expanding, which some scientists believe proves the big bang theory. That, and stars implode and then expand, and there's also the question of what's in the center of a galaxy.

But I don't have an opinion for or against the idea of the big bang. We just don't have enough solid data yet, which is the point.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 08:40 PM
 
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Art, How in the world can you say that Bush is cold? One of his biggest problems with me is he seems to believe the American people are made of a bottomless pit of wealth for redistribution sake. You leftist folks are relentless in your pursuit of wealth redistribution. If it was much greater ,there just wouldn't be a hell of a lot of incentive for me to get out of bed in the mornin'.
I mean really man, the economy is in precisely the failing period it is in now due to our relentless pursuit of providing housing for every man woman and child on the planet. Rent is not good enough, we all have to own. Well, hopefully we have learned there is more to home ownership than just wishful thinking. It doesn't just take a village. It takes a bank in the village that knows how to distribute the resources to the people that can pay it back so that the wheel can keep turning. For three years we danced to the tune tht any warm body could pay back a loan. By any reasonable business standard it was insane.
So yeah, Bush presided over that failure. However, all these things present themselves under the relentless pursuit of the left in the attempt to equalize everything.
Sorry men, we can't wish everything equal. If that ever happens, I'm stayin in bed,- except to go pick up my check.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 08:41 PM
 
2,970 posts, read 2,260,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artliquide View Post
I thought we were talking about evolution. I haven't read enough about the big bang theory to comment on this.
Maybe we were, and I strayed off topic. . .

I just meant that so many people default to science when poo-pooing the Bible and creation but are willing to accept an unprovable theory.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,976,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artliquide View Post
This is completely off topic, but maybe I can reel it back in to a related topic. I was watching a special, I think on PBS, a few weeks ago about the Dover case regarding intelligent design. I come from a Christian background, so I still have lingering ideas along those lines, but I have challenged my own assumptions over the years, and I tend to prefer empirical data to dogma, so I try to take in these kinds of topics with as much of an open mind as I can muster.

This case was defended with the notion that intelligent design (which was proven to have been renamed from "creationism" in official documents, though it is the same concept) is a scientific theory. The problem with the belief of the one expert witness who showed up for the trial to defend the scientific relevance of intelligent design was that he redefined scientific method by stating that a scientific theory is merely an idea without a degree of certainty. While that is true, his definition fits a hypothesis more accurately. He stated that empirical data was not necessary to back up a scientific theory.

.
Aha, someone else with a penchant for PBS! That Dover case was interesting, especially when those believing in Intelligent Design were asked what substantiation they had for their theory and they answered none was necessary for a theory. Then the question was whether astrology, by their definition, could be considered a scientific theory, and they said yes.

I had, prior to this, thought that Intelligent Design could include anyone who believed that there could be a mystical, metaphysical basis to all of existance, but now I suppose it refers to just that one concept - that all of life came into being in exactly the forms we see before us today, that there was no changing from one form to another over time.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,976,948 times
Reputation: 8912
[quote=sindey;2073557]
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post


I agree. I heard something his mom said when the victims of Katrina were all crowded together about "them being better off now than they were" and I thought what a heartless woman she is.
Very sad.
Yep. We spoof about him, but there is a part of him that is really pitifull, a frightened, lost little boy with no one who loves him. Mustering all the forces he can to confront a world he cannot really comprehend. Money and power seem to be the things that get the attention/affection of others, so he spends all his life trying for those things. But these are affectations, and the real things he needs to feel complete are locked within him. Frozen somewhere in his past. God help the little guy.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 2,110,850 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodsam View Post
Art, How in the world can you say that Bush is cold? One of his biggest problems with me is he seems to believe the American people are made of a bottomless pit of wealth for redistribution sake. You leftist folks are relentless in your pursuit of wealth redistribution. If it was much greater ,there just wouldn't be a hell of a lot of incentive for me to get out of bed in the mornin'.
I mean really man, the economy is in precisely the failing period it is in now due to our relentless pursuit of providing housing for every man woman and child on the planet. Rent is not good enough, we all have to own. Well, hopefully we have learned there is more to home ownership than just wishful thinking. It doesn't just take a village. It takes a bank in the village that knows how to distribute the resources to the people that can pay it back so that the wheel can keep turning. For three years we danced to the tune tht any warm body could pay back a loan. By any reasonable business standard it was insane.
So yeah, Bush presided over that failure. However, all these things present themselves under the relentless pursuit of the left in the attempt to equalize everything.
Sorry men, we can't wish everything equal. If that ever happens, I'm stayin in bed,- except to go pick up my check.
I don't know if you really meant to direct that toward me. I never said Bush was cold.

I don't believe that everything can possibly be equal. Communism has already been attempted and has failed (even in rich China). Even if it hadn't failed, that's not a system I'd want to live in.

But I do think that "conservatives" (I hate labels. I'm independent) give too much room for money hungry CEOs to usurp the masses. Some may say: "well, they were smart enough to earn the money they did by whatever means, and those who aren't smart enough-or ruthless enough-to be a CEO deserve to struggle."

The issue I have is that I am not wired to be a CEO, therefore, unless I chose to sell my soul to the almighty dollar, I'm destined to never be prosperous. I'm a socially empathic individualist, which I believe is a major reason for the founding of this nation. In other words, I believe that I should work according to my strengths and how I'm wired, while keeping a conscience regarding social responsibility.

On a personal level, being an individual for me means that I am a linguist, an artist, a musician and a teacher. I am not management material, other than for a classroom of kids and my own family. But my skills are what they are and do not entitle me to being financially secure or comfortable, because this country is run by the corporations who have the means to influence our government.

If each one of us had more opportunity to live in a safe, and financially comfortable (notice I didn't say wealthy) environment, I would actually find it easier to get out of bed in the morning because I would have more opportunity to use my skills and strengths to be a productive member of society, rather than being a slave to corporations and money hungry CEOs.

Oh, and one more thing. I'm a girl, not a man.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 2,110,850 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Aha, someone else with a penchant for PBS! That Dover case was interesting, especially when those believing in Intelligent Design were asked what substantiation they had for their theory and they answered none was necessary for a theory. Then the question was whether astrology, by their definition, could be considered a scientific theory, and they said yes.

I had, prior to this, thought that Intelligent Design could include anyone who believed that there could be a mystical, metaphysical basis to all of existance, but now I suppose it refers to just that one concept - that all of life came into being in exactly the forms we see before us today, that there was no changing from one form to another over time.
Yeah, I listen to NPR too. Hey, if my tax dollars are helping to pay for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, I might as well reap a benefit That, and I'm a nerdy science and news junkie.

I agree. That astrology question during the dramatization made me chuckle. Those were some great lawyers. I also liked when the lawyer left the huge stack of books by renown scientists on the witness stand for the "expert" to read.

I think that the intelligent design proponents were trying to pass it off as some entity, which could be anything ranging from a deity to aliens, but in reality, it was a Christian agenda to try to get religious education in schools. They just tried to make it sound like they didn't necessarily mean that god was the designer, because that would help their case.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 09:13 PM
 
34 posts, read 20,563 times
Reputation: 17
The documentary said foremost, that science cannot construct any reasonable theory with respect to a catalyst for "transforming" the primordial goo into the most basic cell. This idea is the Genesis of Darwinism. Without that catalyst, Darwin has no more relevance.
The really sad thing about religion is not what the Bible says but what is read into the Bible. I use the Bible only as example, as all religions have a creation theory. It is funny how it is dismissed out of hand by the "most brilliant" of our fellow men.
The catalyst for all these religions is that the "transforming" catalyst is a creator. Usually coming from the clouds? It happens for me that Christianity best represents creation from a spiritual perspective. That's just me, I guess because i have taken the time to read it.
A creator of such unfathonable intelligence might see the wisdom of offering up a prescription for social success for a primitive intelligence. Of course, with such creative powers, that creator might just zap us with high intelligence. Then again, maybe the creator would want the creation to prove something to him? Would the creation be in much of a position to disagree?
Ah yes. Religion kills.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 2,110,850 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodsam View Post
A creator of such unfathonable intelligence might see the wisdom of offering up a prescription for social success for a primitive intelligence. Of course, with such creative powers, that creator might just zap us with high intelligence. Then again, maybe the creator would want the creation to prove something to him? Would the creation be in much of a position to disagree?
Ah yes. Religion kills.
The irony is that Christianity, as you state, teaches that all human beings have free will, yet many Christian fundamentalists in this country wish to impose their will on others. Live and let live, as long as we can all live peacefully is my preference. That, and if I were to adopt any Christian values, I would rather be more like Christ than most modern Christians are. He was pretty Zen, that guy.
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