Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,219,944 times
Reputation: 35920

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And I live on the border in a town where at least 40% of the population was born in Mexico -- but 75% speak Spanish as their primary language. Not much assimilation going on here as far as language --- you even hear WIC coupons being called "Week". There are more television and radio channels in Spanish than in English, it would be difficult for many to assimilate even if they wanted to. In fact in order to get a job, very often there is no requirement at all to speak English or at least not fluently but Spanish fluency is very often required. You can go to Walmart and have your change counted out in Spanish. I wish I saw assimilation going on. I had a neighbor who lived here for more than 50 years and he could not speak or understand English.
My father-in-law grew up here: Around Swedish America in 548 Days - Day 377 - Oakland . His mother, an immigrant from Sweden, before the days of quotas, mind you, never learned English even though she emigrated at age 17. (His father, DH's grandfather, was a Swedish immigrant as well.) When DH was a kid, there were restaurants in Oakland with the menus in Swedish. My FIL grew up speaking Swedish at home and didn't learn English until he went to school.

This was also a common story back where I grew up, in the Pittsburgh area. There are areas of Wisconsin where kids are still taught German at home. My mom was born in the US as were her parents and some of her grandparents, but she didn't speak English, either until she went to school. Even then, they spoke German at home.

In Rural Wisconsin, German Reigned For Decades : NPR
"In 1910," says Joseph Salmons, a linguist at the University of Wisconsin, "a quarter of the population told the census taker they spoke only German and didn't speak English — a quarter of the population." . . ."It turns out a lot of these people were born in Wisconsin," Salmons says. "And a fair number were born of parents born in Wisconsin. That is, these guys were not exactly killing themselves to learn English." . . . Salmons says some Anglos in town even learned German to be able to do business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I don't live near the border but my experience has been the same. I know there are many who have been here for decades and still can't speak English. Everywhere I go most of them are speaking exclusively in Spanish. Did they all just come over the border? I don't think so! When you have this magnitude of immigrants coming both legally and illegally from mostly one ethnic group they colonize rather than assimilate. I can't believe the number of channels my cable provider has in Spanish now. It has accelerated in the past 5 years. What happened to diversity as the desire for this country?
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Well actually this very massive immigraton from Mexico is quite recent. Back 80 years ago, you did not see millions coming over every year. The ones amnestied in the 1980s have not assimiliated and there is no way you can predict the 11 to 30 million handed their amnesty this time will assimilate.

They sure do wave a lot of Mexican flags in their protests don't they. Unlike my ancestors, this batch will hold onto their own citizenship and just get the USA citizenship for how it benefits them. My ancestors never had anything like an Aztlan movement or mexica movement. Nor did they demand television and radio in their own languages.

The very fast growing problem of hispanic gangs is a result of inability to assimilate --- and they are a big problem. Ever visit along the border and see the vandalism, the gang graffitti?

Hispanic poverty is growing -- and it's not due to the assimilated American types.
No, you saw millions from Europe, especially eastern Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
True -- and back in the 1800s when many immigrants came, they came from many countries and many language backgrounds and because of that, they saw the need in having and learning a common language. They really did not expect everyone else to learn Polish, Greek, German, Italian, and so on.

Today there is not much diversity in immigration because most of it is illegal or family chain migration and just one ethnic group/language heavily dominates. Legal immigrants coming on work visas generally do assimilate and also they see the need in learning English. You don't see people coming here from China, Japan, or India insisting we must provide them everything in their own language except in isolated cases. That's because most come through employers who provide them visas to come and require some level of education.

We've never before had many millions coming in a short time all from just one country or one region, one language.
Swedish emigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do You Speak American . Sea to Shining Sea . Official American . English Only | PBS
Read the above. I'm not going to cut and paste.

 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:25 PM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,910,175 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The fact that many millions of unemployed Americans will be permanently denied the chance to do that.

And these low skilled illegals will at best make minimum wage even after legalized and still qualify for Medicaid, food stamps and big hefty EITC checks.

And of course the millions replacements who will be then brought in to do the low wage hard work kinds of jobs that Americans and amnestied illegals think they're too good to do.
How are unemployede americans being denied paying into SSA? McDonnalds is always hiring.

All your other fears have nothing to do with SSA benifits.

All the benefits listed, they are eligible for now...seems better if they are paying into the system.
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:28 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,450,300 times
Reputation: 22471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
My father-in-law grew up here: Around Swedish America in 548 Days - Day 377 - Oakland . His mother, an immigrant from Sweden, before the days of quotas, mind you, never learned English even though she emigrated at age 17. (His father, DH's grandfather, was a Swedish immigrant as well.) When DH was a kid, there were restaurants in Oakland with the menus in Swedish. My FIL grew up speaking Swedish at home and didn't learn English until he went to school.

This was also a common story back where I grew up, in the Pittsburgh area. There are areas of Wisconsin where kids are still taught German at home. My mom was born in the US as were her parents and some of her grandparents, but she didn't speak English, either until she went to school. Even then, they spoke German at home.

In Rural Wisconsin, German Reigned For Decades : NPR
[i]"In 1910," says Joseph Salmons, I'm not going to cut and paste.
In 1910 there were jobs --- now with massive outsourcing of jobs, we do not need many millions of high birth rate illiterate types pouring into this country. Machines have also replaced the need for all this stoop labor you want to bring in.

We have too many unemployed Americans.
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:30 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,450,300 times
Reputation: 22471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
How are unemployede americans being denied paying into SSA? McDonnalds is always hiring.

All your other fears have nothing to do with SSA benifits.

All the benefits listed, they are eligible for now...seems better if they are paying into the system.
Seems to me it would be better to get AMERICANS employed and paying in.

Exactly what do you intend to do for all the millions of Americans you want to replace in the workplace and how will Americans retire if they've never paid into social security?

This is just what you imply --- replacing the American people with a cheaper foreign model, but you also intend to destroy the Americans since they'll be left jobless.
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,219,944 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
In 1910 there were jobs --- now with massive outsourcing of jobs, we do not need many millions of high birth rate illiterate types pouring into this country. Machines have also replaced the need for all this stoop labor you want to bring in.

We have too many unemployed Americans.
You didn't read that article referencing 1910 closely. They were talking about native Wisconsin born Americans whose parents in some cases were also born in the US. It's not an article about immigration at all.
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:33 PM
 
62,432 posts, read 28,679,488 times
Reputation: 18367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
The point you failed to assess on your tour of America...Is that those folk are already here. You may delay their assimilation fully into the American society, but the following generation will.

What you fear has already happened.
Who wants illegals to assimilate anyway? They need to go home instead but don't think we were born yesterday if Hispanics start outnumbering non-Hispanics in this country in this manner that they are going to speak English instead of Spanish as their primary language and adopt our culture instead of retaining their own out in mainstream. Just how gullible do you think we are?
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:37 PM
 
62,432 posts, read 28,679,488 times
Reputation: 18367
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
They're here picking lettuce in 120 degree heat and cleaning toilets for $5 an hour, doing all those illegally paying hard work jobs that Americans don't want to do, and they're not at all assimilated.

Make them legal and they will not longer want to pick lettuce in 120 degree heat or clean toilets for less than minimum wage -- you know what amnesty does for them - it makes them legal and they can leave the fields and start grabbing up all kinds of jobs that Americans do want.

What this bill does is dumps 11 to 30 million more LEGAL workers into the legal labor pool, it gives those who are now here illegally the right to take jobs that Americans need. It in fact makes them ineligible for the jobs they currently hold that pay them very low.

Do you really believe your neighbors with the illegal live-in nanny they pay $200 cash a week will suddenly start paying her minimum wage with social security taxes and workman's comp on top? No -- they'll just find another illegal and their former illegal will be looking for a job in a store or somewhere better.
Only 3% of illegals are picking crops and the other 97% are doing jobs Americans have always done including cleaning toilets. Please stop with this that they are only doing jobs Americans won't do. You usually don't make such erroneous statements.
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:39 PM
 
62,432 posts, read 28,679,488 times
Reputation: 18367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
If they become US Citizens and pay into the system and earn thier 40 credits...what is the problem?
The problem is that they are taking jobs from Americans even if legalized. If Americans got their jobs back and illegals were made to leave either voluntarily or involuntarily those 40 credits would be earned by Americans.
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:44 PM
 
62,432 posts, read 28,679,488 times
Reputation: 18367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
It would be advantageous to you if you read a summry of the current provision. One provision is a guest worker program, in which farm labor comes to work and goes home.

There is no provision for amnesty, they would recieve temporary lawful status. no legalization happens until they are eligible for a green card.

Isn't it your side that says that farm work makes up a very small percentage of jobs currently done by illegal aleins. And furthermore, there are legal aliens doing farm work now...In the 120 heat.

If CIR passes, E-verify will be the law of the land...so if employer wants to risk fines and/or imprisonment..that is on them.
Why another guest worker program for farm workers when we already have the unlimited H-2A visas for that? The fact that these illegals will be able to remain here even temporarily lawfully is amnesty rather than sending them back home to apply for legal entry like real immigrants do.

I don't see either side really backing e-verify when push comes to shove. Both parties have their own agenda not to make it mandatory. If they were really serious about it they would have mandated it long ago and also require employers to check those already on their payroll but they don't want the latter.
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:57 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,450,300 times
Reputation: 22471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Only 3% of illegals are picking crops and the other 97% are doing jobs Americans have always done including cleaning toilets. Please stop with this that they are only doing jobs Americans won't do. You usually don't make such erroneous statements.
I know not that many are doing farm work -- I know that very well, but a whole lot of illegals are working illegally as "contract labor" of some kind or another that doesn't require them or their employer to pay in any kind of social security tax or FICA.

No one with half a brain believes that all those 3% of illegals that are out there right now picking lettuce in that 120 heat will continue to do that after the amnesty. Of course once made legal, they'll be wanting to work in nice air conditioned stores.

Many illegals working contract are not earning legal wages because it's legal somehow to hire someone and pay some lump sum cash with no taxes taken and that comes out to less than legal minimum wage for all kinds of jobs.

You can have employees that only work for you but you can claim they were contract labor and it's not your fault they're here illegally, how were you supposed to know but they were willing to come day after day and do your yardwork and other household chores for 40 hours a week for $150 cash. Not your fault they didn't pay taxes like contractors are supposed to do.

And it will be just as easy to bring in illegals as it was before, that's very obvious.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top