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Old 07-04-2013, 05:12 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,351,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Yes lets pretend you don't pay more taxes when your income is coupled and you move up in the dreaded tax bracket.
Many people do. In the states and worldwide. But focusing on tax is to miss/avoid the point I am making. I am not making a point about tax. I am making a point about equality.

And if you are so worried about money.... and you are SO convinced that married people pay MORE taxes.... then is this not you arguing FOR gay marriage? After all they would then be paying more tax which will be spent on your country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
What "benifit"?
I listed several already. Scroll back and read it.

 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:18 AM
 
82 posts, read 192,407 times
Reputation: 36
I have no problem with what people want to do or believe in. They can do whatever they want since they have the freedom to do so in this country. What I DON'T like is when they force their beliefs down your throat and make you out to be a piece of garbage if you disagree with their beliefs. If I don't support homosexuality or gay marriage, I am "insensitive" and I'm "wrong." I can't stand when someone else tries to force their beliefs on someone and then dare call then "wrong" if they don't agree.
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:19 AM
 
6,073 posts, read 4,720,935 times
Reputation: 2635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
No, you asserted one. One that I do not agree with. Greed is the selfish desire for something. I do not see them being any more greedy than we are simply for wanting the same things we have.

The only way to apply your definition of "greed" correctly is to simply declare we are ALL greedy. And in that I would 100% agree with you. That is just the kind of species we are.

I simply see no way to specifically call one group greedy for wanting nothing more than the same as the other group has.



You can state it by all means. But it does not make it a fact. There is more to it than that. I listed some of the other implications of marriage for example. It is also an equality issue.
yes, we are all greedy. this is a pretty commonly accepted fact. poor people want the rich to pay more in taxes so they can get more stuff. greed. rich people want to keep what they earn. greed. those are my two definitions, and everyone fits into one category or the other.
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:19 AM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,953,815 times
Reputation: 5455
Easy there dfab. The kooks will come out on you for telling the truth here soon.
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:20 AM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,953,815 times
Reputation: 5455
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionsgators View Post
yes, we are all greedy. this is a pretty commonly accepted fact. poor people want the rich to pay more in taxes so they can get more stuff. greed. rich people want to keep what they earn. greed. those are my two definitions, and everyone fits into one category or the other.
Reality is a tough pill to swallow for some. Utopia is on the horizon.........soon..........soon........lol
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:24 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,351,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfab86 View Post
What I DON'T like is when they force their beliefs down your throat and make you out to be a piece of garbage if you disagree with their beliefs.
No one does like that. And neither side is more guilty of it than the other. There are people on both sides that do it. The trick is to get past that and simply consider the real world fact. Ask yourself:

1) What are the things these people are actually asking for?
2) What are the reasons for not giving it to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfab86 View Post
If I don't support homosexuality or gay marriage, I am "insensitive" and I'm "wrong."
Maybe you are wrong. Maybe you are not. That is the question. Until we know WHY you do not support it there is no way to tell. Perhaps you have reasons so convincing that not only are you right... but you will convince me too and I will join you.

But if you do go around simply saying it is wrong or unsupportable but never say why.... then what CAN people say to you except say you are insensitive and wrong? Until they know your reasoning then the fault lies as much with you as with them.
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:25 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,351,097 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionsgators View Post
yes, we are all greedy. this is a pretty commonly accepted fact.
Good. We have a point of agreement from which we can leave together. That is a good start in any conversation.

So if we are saying everyone is greedy then the conversation is over. One is as greedy as another.

But you specifically said gay people were greedy. What does this mean? Just as greedy as everyone else? If so then you have said precisely nothing. Or do you mean greedy even relative to the "norm"? If so, then that is what I am asking you. Why?
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:33 AM
 
82 posts, read 192,407 times
Reputation: 36
"Maybe you are wrong. Maybe you are not. That is the question. Until we know WHY you do not support it there is no way to tell. Perhaps you have reasons so convincing that not only are you right... but you will convince me too and I will join you."

"But if you do go around simply saying it is wrong or unsupportable but never say why.... then what CAN people say to you except say you are insensitive and wrong? Until they know your reasoning then the fault lies as much with you as with them."

I don't feel I need to "convince" someone WHY I am right or wrong. Opinions aren't right or wrong....that's why they are called opinions. What if it just isn't my preference and that's my reasoning? If my reasoning is disagreed with then that means I am "wrong?" This is exactly what I'm talking about. If someone supports gay marriage or homosexuality, I wouldn't demand that they "explain" to me why they think it is right and THEN make a judgment on them whether it is "right or wrong." If they think it's right, then it's right in their eyes....good for them. If I don't support it, then that's my opinion. I shouldn't be told that I am "wrong" for doing so. And for the record, my belief is that I really don't care what people do. I just don't think I should be forced to agree with them and then be labeled as "wrong" etc. if I happen to disagree.
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:40 AM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,953,815 times
Reputation: 5455
dfab best post I've seen around here in a long time.
 
Old 07-04-2013, 05:44 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,351,097 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfab86 View Post
I don't feel I need to "convince" someone WHY I am right or wrong.
Then why join a discussion forum or, specifically, a thread on the subject at all? It makes little sense to me. It strikes me as you using it as an outlet to moan and little else.

You made a point about something you do not like and I am explaining some of the possible reasons this happens. You can ignore me of course, or you can take some of what I am saying on board. The choice is entirely yours.

But I repeat.... if one simply goes around laconically declaring opposition to things like the topic of this thread.... while not giving any background to your position on the matter.... then you are _inviting_ the kind of behaviour you are saying annoys you.

That does not mean you are solely at fault. They are too. But there is utility in recognizing you are far from blameless in the equation. That is all my point is. Any more you read into it than that is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfab86 View Post
What if it just isn't my preference and that's my reasoning?
That would be fine if your opinions existed in isolation. But remember we are part of a community. A society. And these are real people, fighting for real rights. If we are to have the discussion about whether to afford or preclude them those rights then in THAT context simply asserting your opinion and leaving it at that is not enough.

Otherwise at the end of the day all that is happening is you are espousing your opinion. They are espousing theirs (that you are wrong) and only you are the one moaning about it. So while you are essentially saying "I have every right to my opinion and to express it" what you are _effectively_ saying is "I am annoyed that they have/expressed theirs!"
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