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Excellent article. THIS is the very thing I was trying to avoid doing by not reading up on the case before the trial. I get it - people feel strongly about this case - but I submit that they would feel differently if they didn't allow themselves to be skewed by media's portrayal of events.
If you haven't watched it yet, you really should check out the reenactment in the link in post 14. I found it quite believable and consistent with the bulk of what evidence has come out. Z states that he went out with his flashlight, but the light wasn't working (sounds like a few in my drawer). He walked across to the road on the far side of the T to get an address that dispatch requested to help them locate him. He identified a location where the altercation took place and the fight on the ground. I counted him making 10 steps in his reenactment, which should be about 30 feet. At the least very close to where the physical evidence was found, and as good as you could expect from someone in a life or death struggle in the dark. His demeanor did not come across as dishonest. Lets face it, he wasn't required to give a statement to police. To the best of my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) he wasn't arrested at that time, merely giving a statement. Now, if he wasn't arrested, was he Mirandized? And if not, can his statement, including the reenactment, be used in court?
A couple little things that help support him in the reenactment, which took place the day after the event, IIRC. He had bandages over the lacerations on the back of his head, and an obvious injury of some sort below his right eye. Other facts that have come is that it was raining as Z stated, and according to one of the witnesses, very hard. I'd agree with Z....an unidentified person, standing and walking slowly in the rain and looking at houses, does seem strange...as in suspicious. Especially when he was on the lawn close to the houses (as I understand from the reenactment) as opposed to on the sidewalk. Can't speak for everyone, but when I'm caught out in a hard rain, I walk pretty quickly towards where I'm going, to well, get out of the rain. Especially when wearing a sweatshirt, as opposed to rain gear.
A few questions question. He states that someone came out and he asked him to help restrain the person he claimed attacked him (Martin). And that the person went away saying he would call 911. Has any witness come up and testified to that yet? I've missed parts of the trial. Also, he claims that Martin walked behind the buildings, turned and came out and came up to his car, "checking him out" IIRC. Has there been any evidence that supports or contradicts this?
IMO, his biggest single mistake by far-talking with police before talking to a lawyer. And also to go on any talk show and make any kind of statement.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 06-30-2013 at 11:28 PM..
Until he attacked GZ and attempted to murder him....
...and you know that how? If you were there, it is your civil duty to come forward with what you definitively know as fact. Call the defense attorneys immediately.
If you haven't watched it yet, you really should check out the reenactment in the link in post 14. I found it quite believable and consistent with the bulk of what evidence has come out. Z states that he went out with his flashlight, but the light wasn't working (sounds like a few in my drawer). He walked across to the road on the far side of the T to get an address that dispatch requested to help them locate him. He identified a location where the altercation took place and the fight on the ground. I counted him making 10 steps in his reenactment, which should be about 30 feet. At the least very close to where the physical evidence was found, and as good as you could expect from someone in a life or death struggle in the dark. His demeanor did not come across as dishonest. Lets face it, he wasn't required to give a statement to police. To the best of my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) he wasn't arrested at that time, merely giving a statement. Now, if he wasn't arrested, was he Mirandized? And if not, can his statement, including the reenactment, be used in court?
A couple little things that help support him in the reenactment, which took place the day after the event, IIRC. He had bandages over the lacerations on the back of his head, and an obvious injury of some sort below his right eye. Other facts that have come is that it was raining as Z stated, and according to one of the witnesses, very hard. I'd agree with Z....an unidentified person, standing and walking slowly in the rain and looking at houses, does seem strange...as in suspicious. Especially when he was on the lawn close to the houses (as I understand from the reenactment) as opposed to on the sidewalk. Can't speak for everyone, but when I'm caught out in a hard rain, I walk pretty quickly towards where I'm going, to well, get out of the rain. Especially when wearing a sweatshirt, as opposed to rain gear.
A few questions question. He states that someone came out and he asked him to help restrain the person he claimed attacked him (Martin). And that the person went away saying he would call 911. Has any witness come up and testified to that yet? I've missed parts of the trial. Also, he claims that Martin walked behind the buildings, turned and came out and came up to his car, "checking him out" IIRC. Has there been any evidence that supports or contradicts this?
IMO, his biggest single mistake by far-talking with police before talking to a lawyer.
Fair question, and I really don't know. My guess would be that he felt strongly that he did the right thing, and that the cops believed him. They came across (during the reenactment video) as pretty supportive and sympathetic. (Which of course is what they are trained to do). Plus he had been working with (via the NW program) the police for quite some time. I think he figured he was on pretty supportive ground, and just had to tell the truth.
I would like to know when he last took a CCW course. EVERY one I have taken, or heard about teaches the same thing if you are ever unfortunate enough to be in a self defense shooting. Make no statement to the police until you talk to your attorney. I'd guess it had either been a while or he wasn't paying attention in class to that part.
As to all the silly comments about why he took his gun to Target, go catch the Hannity interview (which popped up on Youtube after the reenactment video). He stated that he carries everywhere he goes, except at work. I find that very believable, since I do the same thing (work has a no-weapons policy). I have carried in my local Target, WM, grocery stores and restaurants many times, and a large portion of CCW holders do so as well. I don't see how some people can find Z "carrying his gun shopping at Target" such a big issue.
Not sure exactly how the law handles that. But along the same lines, at what point when Zimmerman is on the ground, is it okay to defend himself with a weapon for fear of his life? We know he had injuries, I think we all believe he was on the ground on his back. We werent in his position. We dont know what if felt like. There really is no evidence that can say he didnt fear for his life unless he said he didnt.
With so much circumstantial evidence and questionable witness accounts, how could anyone feel comfortable putting this guy away for God knows how long?
Well said.
Personally I don't think much of GZ as a man or his character. That said I also don't know how afraid he really felt. We don't know how aggressive TM was in his attack.
I believe GZ was afraid. He didn't leave home thinking ok today is the day I finally shoot someone. He acted like an idiot and it turned into a fight. TM had many options which he ignored and at some point he hit GZ and the fight was on.
It is a sad story of letting relatively minor issues escalate into insane actions.
I'll venture a guess. He did not think he would need one. If I am not mistaken the police had TM's phone in their posession and did not bother to utilize it to identify him and contact next of kin. This is part of what sparked the outrage. TM's death and the shooting were being brushed off. Maybe Zimmerman took for granted that it was going to be handled nonchalantly.
I've got a good answer, but first you must answer my request as to why you think Zimmie didn't stay silent till he got a lawyer, and even after he did get one.
Fair question, and I really don't know. My guess would be that he felt strongly that he did the right thing, and that the cops believed him. They came across (during the reenactment video) as pretty supportive and sympathetic. Plus he had been working with (via the NW program) the police for quite some time. I think he figured he was on pretty supportive ground, and just had to tell the truth.
.
The cops had not filed charges and it's similar to when you've been in a wreck and they ask your side of the story.
You tend to start talking when you honestly believe you've done nothing wrong.
That may not have been the best option but he's very convincing in that reenactment.
Fair question, and I really don't know. My guess would be that he felt strongly that he did the right thing, and that the cops believed him. They came across (during the reenactment video) as pretty supportive and sympathetic. Plus he had been working with (via the NW program) the police for quite some time. I think he figured he was on pretty supportive ground, and just had to tell the truth.
I would like to know when he last took a CCW course. EVERY one I have taken, or heard about teaches the same thing if you are ever unfortunate enough to be in a self defense shooting. Make no statement to the police until you talk to your attorney. I'd guess it had either been a while or he wasn't paying attention in class to that part.
As to all the silly comments about why he took his gun to Target, go catch the Hannity interview (which popped up on Youtube after the reenactment video). He stated that he carries everywhere he goes, except at work. I find that very believable, since I do the same thing (work has a no-weapons policy). I have carried in my local Target, WM, grocery stores and restaurants many times, and a large portion of CCW holders do so as well. I don't see how some people can find Z "carrying his gun shopping at Target" such a big issue.
It's evident from his actions that night that he was not paying attention for much of that class.
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