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Not unless you can explain how his following you put you in fear of serious physical harm or death. Let me see if I follow your line of thought. If I am walking down the street and a black guy in a hoodie is following me. I can now blast him with pepper spray because he made me fearful. Would that be okay with you?
The irony is great isn't it?
What if you were a neighborhood watch person and you saw a black guy in a hoodie walking around and he made you fearful? Surely ellemint here would support your right to blow him away with a Kel-Tec 9MM.
"Question for those that have been on a jury. When the jury goes to deliberate, are they given definitions on the charges? For example, 2nd degree murder is _______. I assume so, just never heard how they get that info."
YES, the jury is given verbal instructions from the Judge which contain "definitions" and the specific laws applicable to this case, which will include manslaughter. In Florida a hard copy, typed copy, of those Jury Instructions (called the Jury Charge) are sent to the jury room with them to consult during deliberations. Usually, the Jury Charge given to the jury by the Court just prior to deliberations is fairly long, many pages, of instructions to the jury regarding how they are to proceed and defining the law and things like what a reasonable doubt is, how to determine the credibility of the witnesses, etc.. Both attorneys have input into what instructions are given, but the Court has the last word on what the instructions will be.
If the encounter started at the "T" with a sucker punch how did Martin's body and Z's flashlight wind up 50 feet south? Did Zimmerman hold onto the flashlight through the beating?
I also wonder if Zimmie initiated a sucker punch by holding a flashlight beam in Trayvon's eyes.
Zimmie might have struck some body blows on Trayvon with the flashlight.
I believe, and this is my opinion based on witness testimony, that Zimmerman had pursued Trayvon down the alleyway as Trayvon was headed back to his father's fiance's home. At least one witness testified that the altercation seemed to further south down the alleyway and move north towards the T.
That was the witness who never said that before. Is she also the one who signed the change.org petition. Did she see anyone, or merely hear noise. Did she hear one or two people. Absolutely nobody states the fight moved south to north, not even her. Belief is a wonderful thing.
That was the witness who never said that before. Is she also the one who signed the change.org petition. Did she see anyone, or merely hear noise. Did she hear one or two people. Absolutely nobody states the fight moved south to north, not even her. Belief is a wonderful thing.
Yes, I found that witness's credibility questionable. It wasn't even the signing of the petition that caused me to doubt her - it was the changing of the story.
This is an internet map posted earlier by Katzpaw, but on it the flashlight, item # 5, does look to be about 45 feet from the T.
I'm thinking someone's scale is off pretty considerably. Several news reports (which I admit, I take with a large grain of salt) placed Martin's body at 170 feet from his door. The 50' scale in that set of pics would put it at alot closer to 100-110 feet.
I don't know where you got 30'. The defense did show a map with the evidence markers but it was an awkward angle to the camera and I can't find a copy online. These photos show TM dead in the second yard which is about 50 feet from the T.
ty. I thought I saw 30 feet mentioned on the other thread. I have no idea how far the distance is. One of things I'll wait on before forming an opinion. chanes are good you're right and the body won't match up with gz's story.
[quote=SamBarrow;30267860]You're conflating two entirely separate things.
None of your earlier arguments were predicated on the fact that GZ had "come up right behind" anyone.
That could easily instill a reasonable fear, enough to meet the burden for self defense. And at this point of your argument, we might as well completely toss the whole "following" thing out of the mix.
Be consistent. You can not in any way hold GZ responsible for the few things that we know 100% for certain that he did.
By the way, had TM had a "duty to retreat" as opposed to the right to stand his ground, he'd be absolutely 100% guilty of assault had he attacked George Zimmerman without first exhausting all means to flee, which he could have easily done.[/quote]
^^^This is the crux of the matter. George had the duty. George didn't retreat....He went after a teen with a loaded gun. George is the one on trial. George will be held accountable.
And, related to holding George accountable...
George can and is being held responsible. He is on trial because of his actions.
Last edited by JanND; 06-30-2013 at 05:30 PM..
Reason: edit text
That was the witness who never said that before. Is she also the one who signed the change.org petition. Did she see anyone, or merely hear noise. Did she hear one or two people. Absolutely nobody states the fight moved south to north, not even her. Belief is a wonderful thing.
She was the very first prosecution witness, and she lived on the east side of the alleyway. She said the fight seemed to move from left to right, so that would be north.
It fits more with where the body was found. Even Zimmerman couldn't explain why the body was 50 feet from the T, since he claims he was sucker-punched at the T, and then he was straddled by Trayvon and nearly beaten to death. That's one of the weaknesses of his story.
Zimmerman could hardly admit he had pursued Trayvon down the alleyway because he claims at that point he wasn't pursuing Trayvon anymore and was returning back to his vehicle.
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