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View Poll Results: If Abortion Was Made Illegal What Should The Consequences Be For The Woman?
Nothing 2 3.08%
Mandatory Counselling 3 4.62%
Community Service 2 3.08%
Probation 1 1.54%
Jail Time 14 21.54%
I Don't Think Abortion Should Be Illegal 43 66.15%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-04-2013, 09:12 AM
 
15,623 posts, read 16,671,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Actually I used the wrong term. What I was trying to say is a situation where a baby is viable and survives an attempted abortion. Should that baby be left on the counter to die or should it be saved?
healthy viable babies are not aborted when they can survive outside the womb.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,152 posts, read 7,799,849 times
Reputation: 4186
The reason you don't kill other humans has less to do with the legality and more to do with the current morality.

I'd hope we can reach a point where women don't have an abortion because they realize it is just wrong - legal or not.

There will always be the need for medical abortions - real health issues, and those make sense. They might constitute 2% of all abortions.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
23,983 posts, read 12,632,273 times
Reputation: 9731
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
There are plenty of natural abortifacients, many common herbs that we use for seasoning can cause a misscarriage if drank in a strong decoction, but who drinks a strong rosemary tea, it is very bitter and potent.
Just pointing out that there are other means if abortion were illegal, and there are also natural miscarriages.
Both have the same end result as a medical abortion. How do you punish something that you can not control.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,396,440 times
Reputation: 2381
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Actually I used the wrong term. What I was trying to say is a situation where a baby is viable and survives an attempted abortion. Should that baby be left on the counter to die or should it be saved?
Aborted Child Born Alive, Left to Die; Obama Was Okay With That | LifeNews.com


Quote:
In Vietnam, a family is distraught because their child was born alive, covered in blankets by the hospital, and left to die.

Had this terrible situation arisen in Illinois when Barack Obama was a state senator, it would have been illegal for doctors or nurses to try to save the child once it was discovered alive. For as an Illinois state senator, Obama “voted four times against legislation to protect and care for infants accidentally born alive during late-term abortions.”
Do you have any actual American cases of "babies" left on counters to die???
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:34 AM
 
15,623 posts, read 16,671,494 times
Reputation: 13418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
Aborted Child Born Alive, Left to Die; Obama Was Okay With That | LifeNews.com




Do you have any actual American cases of "babies" left on counters to die???
or from a source other than life news
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,954 posts, read 4,526,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
Do you have any actual American cases of "babies" left on counters to die???
Is USAToday "main stream" enough?
Gruesome testimony renews debate over abortion

Incidentally, as usual when the OP's question is asked I'm stuck as to an answer because the question is unclear. Are you talking about "abortions" as early as the "morning after pill", or are you talking about abortions at 28 weeks like in the trial linked to above? Or maybe some point in between? I always assume the question is talking about a 100% ban on any interference with the pregnancy after the point of fertilization and answer accordingly. It should not be illegal at that point.

But at some point between fertilization and first breath the object we're talking about transforms from a couple of individual cells to a human baby. At that point, an abortion would be murder. The problem is establishing that point. Currently, the SCOTUS says that point is about 24 weeks.
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,568 posts, read 11,851,160 times
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It takes a man and woman to create a child. Fanatic abortion advocates are motivated by one thing...MAN hate...and males who support abortion are suck ups who would have clung to their mothers skirts when they were little boys suffering crippling insecurity.
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:08 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 14,502,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
It takes a man and woman to create a child. Fanatic abortion advocates are motivated by one thing...MAN hate...and males who support abortion are suck ups who would have clung to their mothers skirts when they were little boys suffering crippling insecurity.
Uh; what about supporting a women who was a victim of rape like a female soldier who was captured by the enemy but got free? I'm quite sure her military comrades; most of who are "male" AND can shoot and kill very easily, WILL back her up her getting ab abortion if she wants it.
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:09 PM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,396,440 times
Reputation: 2381
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
Is USAToday "main stream" enough?
Gruesome testimony renews debate over abortion

Incidentally, as usual when the OP's question is asked I'm stuck as to an answer because the question is unclear. Are you talking about "abortions" as early as the "morning after pill", or are you talking about abortions at 28 weeks like in the trial linked to above? Or maybe some point in between? I always assume the question is talking about a 100% ban on any interference with the pregnancy after the point of fertilization and answer accordingly. It should not be illegal at that point.

But at some point between fertilization and first breath the object we're talking about transforms from a couple of individual cells to a human baby. At that point, an abortion would be murder. The problem is establishing that point. Currently, the SCOTUS says that point is about 24 weeks.
Lame. That is not legal. That is not a legal abortion. Your claim fails.

If you use non medical or non-legal terms as "baby" I have no need to discuss these issues with you.
Leave terms like mommy, baby, and stork for your coffee clatches.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,954 posts, read 4,526,094 times
Reputation: 4759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
Lame. That is not legal. That is not a legal abortion. Your claim fails.

If you use non medical or non-legal terms as "baby" I have no need to discuss these issues with you.
Leave terms like mommy, baby, and stork for your coffee clatches.
Are you suggesting that there should be another term used instead of "human baby" after the first breath? Even the most extreme pro-abortion proponents usually agree that after the fetus is outside the mother's body and breathing then it's too late for an abortion. I personally can't think of a more appropriate medical term to use at that point than "human baby".

The rest of my post was concerned with the fact that the majority of Americans, even the SCOTUS, believe that "human baby" is also an appropriate term for the fetus at some point before birth. The most extreme view, held by some religious groups, is that "human baby" is appropriate at the instant of fertilization. But again, more people believe that the object under consideration becomes "human" somewhere between the two extremes. Here's an old poll on City-Data for your perusal: //www.city-data.com/forum/polit...ife-begin.html. As of right now, when asked "When does human Life begin, 21 answered "fertilization or before", 22 answered "first breath" and 36 answered somewhere in the middle. Considering how skewed City-Data posters can be toward the extremes of any view, that's a significant result.

The current legal stance in the US is viability. Specifically, if the fetus can survive outside the mother's body, the only significant difference between "fetus" and "human baby" is location. As this is only a matter of a few inches, I see nothing wrong with using the terms interchangeably at this point.
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