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Single payer, i.e. taxpayer funded medical care, has been tried around the world and has failed. So why keep trying it? We can fail better than the rest of the world?
Why don't we? I'll tell you why not. Because Republicans and their corporate masters spent mega-millions fighting any form of plan to help the uninsured, and they would NEVER EVER EVER have allowed a plan to come even close to being non-profit.
Why don't we? I'll tell you why not. Because Democrats and their type want socialist-type benefits paid for on the backs of capitalists. True national health would require 47% of people to pay far more than they currently pay, and the democrats want nothing to do with that.
Why don't we? I'll tell you why not. Because Democrats and their type want socialist-type benefits paid for on the backs of capitalists. True national health would require 47% of people to pay far more than they currently pay, and the democrats want nothing to do with that.
Even if you give people on welfare jobs they won't take it. They do their own calculation and figure its pointless trying to earn a living making 15-20k a year with little benefits vs staying on welfare.
Once welfare benefits run out. Since they changed welfare in 1996. People have figured its best to jump to disability. The people claiming disability has doubled since welfare laws were changed in 1996. That's the new gravy train that won't end.
You have to understand medicine and priorities we place on scheduling elective diagnostic procedures. We stratified risks.
A healthy male 28 years old with no family history with just a little blood on toilet paper and no other symptoms would be put on a much lower priority than a 40 year old healthy male with a family history and same little blood on toilet paper. Because the 40 year is older and has a family history.
Social health programs stratify risks. That 28 year old male gets push down the waiting list. It ain't going to be next week for a colonscopy for him in UK or Canada. Unless they want to pay out of pocket and go to private doctor. It may be 30-60 days before thar 28 year old gets in.
In the USA that 28 year with their current employer insurance will get in and have the procedure done within a week or even sooner than that.
Guess what you are missing in your post? The fact that Canada and UK both have private healthcare providers and private insurance that is far cheaper as a result of having socialized systems. Even then, you needn't go the Anglo-Saxon model, there's several successful European examples to go by
Even if you give people on welfare jobs they won't take it. They do their own calculation and figure its pointless trying to earn a living making 15-20k a year with little benefits vs staying on welfare.
Once welfare benefits run out. Since they changed welfare in 1996. People have figured its best to jump to disability. The people claiming disability has doubled since welfare laws were changed in 1996. That's the new gravy train that won't end.
Why don't we? I'll tell you why not. Because Democrats and their type want socialist-type benefits paid for on the backs of capitalists. True national health would require 47% of people to pay far more than they currently pay, and the democrats want nothing to do with that.
Do you have any idea what we're already paying every year for **** health care because it's not a single payer? Do you have any idea how much not having single system costs extra? Cause the cost is not the level of care...
Spend a month in a medical billing office. You'll see...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp
Even if you give people on welfare jobs they won't take it. They do their own calculation and figure its pointless trying to earn a living making 15-20k a year with little benefits vs staying on welfare.
Once welfare benefits run out. Since they changed welfare in 1996. People have figured its best to jump to disability. The people claiming disability has doubled since welfare laws were changed in 1996. That's the new gravy train that won't end.
Because welfare is fundamentally broken. It's designed for people who hit rock bottom and keeps them there. It my state, you get no assistance till you have nothing left. Logic would dictate, if you help people on the way down instead of at the end of the line, they are more likely to recover. Those on welfare see any improvement in their lot in life, they lose more. It's one step forward, three steps back. Instead of making it a gradual transition, it's a smack upside the head.
That's why there is no incentive to get off welfare. The whole design keeps them on the dole, and punishes them for trying to do better.
This Obamacare appears to be a nightmare for all. Cut out all the CEO's and private jets and just create a national healthcare insurance plan.
All you have to do is present your ID card with your SS to get treatment.
Taxes pay the way. Keep all hospitals and clinics private, competing enterprises but payment comes from national healthcare.
Fines for being overweight and smoking.
Illegals/non-citizens get treatment but the US sends a bill to whatever country they came from. If they don't pay it, the US deducts that amount from any financial aid they send them.
Seems much more simple than Obamacare and I promise you it would cost all of us half of what this nightmare HC system/non system we have going now.
Let's give people free healthcare so they can stay healthy and get to work and make America a better country.
Why don't we just take down the flag, tear it up, paint a hammer and sickle while we are at it as well? /sarc
Guess what you are missing in your post? The fact that Canada and UK both have private healthcare providers and private insurance that is far cheaper as a result of having socialized systems. Even then, you needn't go the Anglo-Saxon model, there's several successful European examples to go by
We have a cheaper system already in place. It's called the cash rate. You give your GI doc $500 cash he will do the procedure in his facility. He takes $300-350. He charges you a facility fee of around $200 to pay for bus nurses staff equipment. The pathologist will charge you around $200-300. So for less than $800 you can get your colonscopy. That's cheap. The issue is you got Americans who want dirt cheap care think they are already paying too much. And like I said its a spider web. You cut the middle guys you tank the economy. Why do you think it's so hard to cut even 5% of the defense budget? Even Obama says he doesn't want jobs being lost with defense cuts. Same with happen with healthcare. Dems and Republicans talk big. They both do. But when it comes to cutting costs. Neither of them do it. Obama promised all this Medicare savings yet right after the ACA was passed he immediately directed congress to pass the "doc fix". Yep. The "savings" went out the window.
This is the USA here. We are not Canada. We are not the UK. This is the USA where lawyers charge $400-1000 an hour. Where my guy who fixes the pool spa charges $160 an hour. Life ain't cheap in the USA.
Last I checked we have 300-330 million people. That's 10x more the people than in Canada.
What other country even with 100 million residents has a top notch health system? China? India? Brazil? Indonesia?
And talk to any doctor in the UK. Ask them how hard it is to build a private practice. The government makes it extremely difficult to set it up and be competitive. The deck is stacked against many private entities.
This Obamacare appears to be a nightmare for all. Cut out all the CEO's and private jets and just create a national healthcare insurance plan.
All you have to do is present your ID card with your SS to get treatment.
Taxes pay the way. Keep all hospitals and clinics private, competing enterprises but payment comes from national healthcare.
Fines for being overweight and smoking.
Illegals/non-citizens get treatment but the US sends a bill to whatever country they came from. If they don't pay it, the US deducts that amount from any financial aid they send them.
Seems much more simple than Obamacare and I promise you it would cost all of us half of what this nightmare HC system/non system we have going now.
Let's give people free healthcare so they can stay healthy and get to work and make America a better country.
First you say we will pay for it with taxes then you say it is free? Could you clarify?
Is there any evidence that non-profits operate at a lower cost than for profits while providing the same service?
Since you think we should punish the obese and smokers what controls will you put in place to not expand that in the future? I can effectively argue that every single action you take affects your health. What happens when I am in office and I decide you need 8 hours of sleep every night, whether you want it or not? What happens when I takes your kids away because you packed them some Oreos for lunch? That's gonna cost me later on when I have to pay for the diabetes treatment. Walked across the street in an unapproved area? You could get hit. To prevent your actions costing me money I will put anyone that jaywalks in jail for a year. First offense.
What is to stop HHS from going into your home and doing a food audit? If they have to pay for your healthcare it seems to me they have that right.
And how many innovations and inventions have come from the government and/or non-profits? How many from for-profits? So you support no new innovations in healthcare for the future. I'm glad they didn't use your plan in 1870. We'd still be getting people drunk for anesthetics and we'd be using leeches to draw blood.
Why don't we? I'll tell you why not. Because Republicans and their corporate masters spent mega-millions fighting any form of plan to help the uninsured, and they would NEVER EVER EVER have allowed a plan to come even close to being non-profit.
and the dems are not puppets of ther eco marxist puppet masters?
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