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At the point when Z threatens T with force, which must be known to T, and Z is in the proximity to commit such force.
Showing his gun would qualify but did Z show his gun?
Carrying a gun does not qualify because the fact Z having a gun would not be a known fact to T.
That's why I encouraged everyone to look at the video of the re-enactment in my post #152. He thought the phone was in his pant's pocket not his coat pocket. When he reached for it, he may have made the gun visible because on the video you can see the gun, I believe. Also, we have only him to believe that he wasn't reaching for the gun from the moment he encountered Trayvon near or in the alleyway. If he was so afraid of Trayvon that he rolled up his windows when Trayvon approached his truck, why would he reach for his phone and not his gun when he encountered him in a dark alley-way?
If Zimmerman is acquitted of all charges what is stop anyone who is losing a fight from shooting their opponent? Doesn't make sense.
First of all, you can't be the one starting the fight. Meaning, you can't provoke the fight. You walk in a bar, say to three guys "hey, let's go outside." Once outside, you proceed to shoot them when you start to lose the fight. This is a classic second degree murder.
Secondly, we aren't legally allowed to use force against another human UNLESS we reasonably believe that we are in the imminent danger of gravely bodily harm or death. There are thousands upon thousands of cases about this. There's not much argument on this either.
The line of self-defense is never blur. It may seem blur to you because you aren't very versed in this area.
Again watch the video in Post 46.
Last edited by lifeexplorer; 07-04-2013 at 07:22 PM..
That's why I encouraged everyone to look at the video of the re-enactment in my post a page or two earlier. He thought the phone was in his pant's pocket not his coat pocket. When he reached for it, he may have made the gun visible because on the video you can see the gun, I believe. Also, we have only him to believe that he wasn't reaching for the gun from the moment he encountered Trayvon near or in the alleyway.
Post #152
You have very good imagination.
This is not a case about whether or not Trayvon is guilty. So your speculation doesn't help anybody. Remember the court deals with facts, not speculation.
Even let's say that were true and Trayvon somehow got up from his grave, stood in front of the jury and testified this to be true. It still wouldn't help the prosecution because:
1. Trayvon seeing the gun was not a known fact to Z.
2. Z only knew Trayvon attacked him for no reason.
Last edited by lifeexplorer; 07-04-2013 at 07:21 PM..
First of all, you can't be the one starting the fight. Meaning, you can't provoke the fight. You walk in a bar, say to three guys "hey, let's go outside." Once outside, you proceed to shoot them when you start to lose the fight. This is a classic second degree murder.
Again watch the video in Post 46.
In florida you can, under certain conditions.
Florida Statutes (Fla. Stat.)
Title XLVI. Crimes.
Chapter 776: JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—
The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
You are armed. Someone punches you, knocks you down and starts swinging at you. How long, legally, should you have to wait before shooting your attacker?
So they couldn't shoot you. In some of his versions, Zimmerman said he started reaching into his pocket for his phone, maybe in doing that he revealed the presence of the gun.
That's another thing that should be made clear. Where exactly was the gun holster, exactly on the right hip, a bit behind it. How much of the gun could you see if it's in the holster?
When he does the re-enactment is that his gun in the holster at one point when he lifts his shirt up a bit?
It is at about 5:32 on this video.
As dark as it was that night (some reporter went there at night) I don't see how it would be possible to see a holstered gun. Even if we assume that you see someone's gun you don't have the right to attack them and if that is what happened, well, it turned out to be a stupid decision.
So I stand by my earlier comment that it makes no sense to fight someone that you know has a gun. Fighting with somebody that has a gun is almost as stupid as ripping off a drug dealer.
As dark as it was that night (some reporter went there at night) I don't see how it would be possible to see a holstered gun. Even if we assume that you see someone's gun you don't have the right to attack them and if that is what happened, well, it turned out to be a stupid decision.
The sight of a gun will make all sensible people stop what they are doing and make a hasty retreat.
There is no way Trayvon could have seen that gun as dark as it was that night with the rain and clouds.
The sight of a gun will make all sensible people stop what they are doing and make a hasty retreat.
There is no way Trayvon could have seen that gun as dark as it was that night with the rain and clouds.
Zimmerman made a point of saying that Trayvon had his hand in his waistband when he was circling Zimmerman's truck. Isn't that hand in the waistband a sign that someone has a gun? I'm not saying Trayvon had a gun, but that Zimmerman may have thought he did.
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